Monday, April 16, 2007


John Taylor Bowles, National Socialist Party presidential candidate, holds a memorial photo of his running mate Bill Hoff. Hoff was killed in a car wreck in December 2006.
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For a man who saw the world in black and white, William Hoff Jr.'s own life was shrouded in gray.

To his younger brother, Sheldon, he was Billy - an intelligent, caring man who once worked teaching black children to read. Billy doted on Sheldon's bi-racial children and wrote letters of encouragement to them.

"My brother was someone who was full of love and compassion," Sheldon Hoff said. "He had a good brain, and he attempted to do a lot of things in this life."

But when William Hoff got together with his friends to play dress-up, he was Wild Bill - a legendary colonel in the National Socialist Movement. Wild Bill was the consummate racist, a Nazi's Nazi.

A force in NSM

"People need heroes, and Colonel Hoff was a hero," said Tim Bishop, also a colonel in the NSM. "People will line up for miles and stand in the pouring rain to see a hero, and Colonel Hoff was one of those."

Wild Bill was such a force in the NSM, the largest neo-Nazi group in the U.S., that John Taylor Bowles, the group's candidate for the presidency of the United States, selected him to be his running mate. On Dec. 8, 2006, 10 hours after they announced their candidacy, Wild Bill died in a car wreck on a lonely stretch of Highway 146 near Enoree. He was 71.

On Saturday, NSM members from across the country will gather at the Redneck Shop in Laurens to honor their fallen comrade. Speeches and music will be the order of the day as they give a final tribute to a man who dedicated most of his adult life to their cause.

But Wild Bill took a secret with him to the grave, one he couldn't share with his NSM buddies. Wild Bill, an icon of white supremacy, was himself part black.

"It was the saddest thing, because the truth was right there in front of him," Sheldon Hoff said. "When you live a life without being honest with yourself, it must be a tough thing when you get to be 70. Lives are not wasted, but he could have gotten so much more out of this one."

A changed man

Billy was born in Brooklyn, N.Y., in 1935, the third of six children. The family lived in a racially diverse area, a neighborhood where recent immigrants often landed.

His father, William Hoff Sr., grew up in South Carolina and settled in Brooklyn after serving in the Coast Guard. The family's last name was Huff until the 1930s, when the elder Hoff changed the spelling.

Money was tight, but William Hoff's family never went hungry. He worked a series of jobs on the bustling waterfront to keep food on the table.

"We were poor, but we were hard-working poor," Sheldon Hoff said. "I never remember my father being without work."

Billy and Sheldon's friends came in a wide variety of hues and nationalities. Together they played baseball in the street and basketball at a local gym. When they couldn't find a game, they'd hang out on the waterfront.

"We did a lot of city things," Sheldon said.

Shortly after his 17th birthday, Billy joined the Navy. When he was discharged two years later, he was a changed man - Billy went to sea, but Wild Bill came home.

Sheldon heard different stories. There were whispers that Wild Bill got into a fight with a black man, that he beat the man with a chair and badly injured him. There was talk that Wild Bill had thrown someone overboard.

"I've often wondered what happened," Sheldon said. "I can't help but think that we're all born just perfect, but that things happen that lead us to certain things."

Whatever happened, Wild Bill stopped seeing his old friends. He had new friends who shared his new ideas about the inferiority of blacks and Jews.

"He was in a string of neo-Nazi groups going back to the 1950s," said Mark Potok, a spokesman for the Southern Poverty Law Center, a Montgomery, Ala.-based organization that tracks hate groups. "He was an important member of the first Nazi party in post-World War II America."

When their father died in 1958, Wild Bill dove deeper into white supremacy groups.

"He just went full bore, and he didn't care who knew," Sheldon said. "He was in the Ku Klux Klan, the Aryan Nation and any other extreme hate group he could join. It was just crazy."

The peak of the insanity came in 1969, when Wild Bill got caught up in a plan to set off a bomb in a room filled with civil rights activists. Wild Bill was convicted of conspiracy and weapons charges and did a six-year stretch in Attica.

Sheldon hoped it would be Billy who came home from prison. But when he got out, Wild Bill was wilder than ever.

Someone fired shots at black people in the subway. Someone burned a cross in the yard of the black family that lived across the street from Sheldon.

"It was never proven that it was him, and I'm not saying that it was him," Sheldon said. "But he was the only person in my community who would have done that."

A secret uncovered

In the mid-1980s, Wild Bill moved to Enoree and later became the NSM's East Coast director. At about the same time Wild Bill was discovering South Carolina, Sheldon was discovering genealogy.

Around 1995, Sheldon uncovered a bombshell, a gem that could have destroyed Wild Bill's credibility with the Nazis - in the 1910 census, their father's family was listed as black. Sheldon eventually traced their black ancestry back to the 1600s.

When he told his brother about his find, Wild Bill brushed it off.

"He was in denial, but after that he never gave us any of his 'white is superior' stuff," Sheldon said.

Sheldon knew the power of the information he had dug up, so he kept it to himself. He said he did so for his brother's protection.

"I loved my brother very much, regardless of who he was," Sheldon said. "I didn't want to bring any heat to him among his friends."

Bishop, the NSM colonel, didn't take the news of Wild Bill's ancestry well. He idolized Wild Bill - and still does.

"He wasn't a black man, I can guarantee you that," Bishop said.

Bowles, the presidential candidate, questioned whether Sheldon's view of Wild Bill's activities might have influenced his research.

"Anybody can say that," Bowles said. "My mother would make that claim if she thought it would make me stop what I was doing."

But Bowles was open to the possibility that Wild Bill's lineage might be less than lily white. "There's probably a little mixture in a lot of people," he said.

More important, Bowles said, was Wild Bill's dedication to the movement. His 30-plus years of "political activism" made him the perfect running mate, Bowles said.

Bowles met Wild Bill about four years ago and says they became fast friends. But his tales of Wild Bill's exploits take a detour off the reality highway.

Bowles claims that Wild Bill - a slight man who stood 5-feet, 8-inches tall and weighed about 150 pounds - was a mercenary who fought all over the world, and that he received more than 70,000 votes as a write-in candidate for one of New York's U.S. Senate seats. But he can produce no evidence, and none could be found, to verify those claims.

More in the realm of believability was the love Bowles said Wild Bill had for flea markets. He collected belt buckles, and Bowles said a display is planned for the Redneck Shop.

Bishop said Wild Bill also had a love for good German food and beer. The last time he saw Wild Bill, at the NSM's 2005 national meeting in Kansas City, Mo., they shared plenty of both.

"We rented a German restaurant and it had quite the German atmosphere, especially after we brought in our regalia," Bishop said. "Colonel Hoff was in his element and I was proud to be right there by his side."

Wild Bill also enjoyed an after-dinner cigarette. Even though smoking wasn't permitted in the restaurant, Wild Bill was allowed to light up.

"Rules were bent for Colonel Hoff," Bishop said.

Bishop, 50, lives in Kansas. Geography isn't his strong suit - he calls President George W. Bush a Zionist who wants to make Canada, the U.S. and Mexico one continent - but he makes up for it with his ability to spout the party's anti-Jew, anti-black and anti-government rhetoric.

He said his loyalty to Wild Bill is a result of Wild Bill's loyalty to the cause.

"In this movement, you have people come and go a lot. People are wish-washy," Bishop said. "Colonel Hoff made a commitment way back in the day, and he stayed committed up until the very end. That's why he was a hero."

John Howard, owner of Redneck Shop and the person in South Carolina who perhaps knew Wild Bill the longest - Howard and his wife, Hazel, earned mention as "special and close friends" in Wild Bill's obituary and along with "adopted grandson" Dwayne Howard were the only survivors listed - refused to talk about his old friend.

"He was a good man and he's deceased. That's all I can tell you," Howard said before slamming down the telephone.

Potok, the SPLC spokesman, said Wild Bill's name was well-earned. Even the most hard-line neo-Nazis looked up to him, he said.

"The National Socialist Movement is a pretty sorry bunch of people," Potok said. "For Bill Hoff to be a hero to them is not that surprising."

An unkind end

Bowles and Wild Bill began planning their run for the nation's top offices almost immediately after President Bush won his second term. Bowles moved to South Carolina from Maryland - where he was a guest of the state from 1985 to '89 after being convicted of arson for profit - a year ago to operate the campaign out of the Redneck Shop.

The last time Bowles saw Wild Bill was early last December. They had gotten together at the Redneck Shop to work on their handbook for organizing grassroots support, Bowles said.

"He was getting tired and had to go take his nap."

When Bowles arrived at the Redneck Shop on Dec. 8, he received the news that stopped him in his tracks.

"As soon as I came into the store, John Howard said, 'Bill's dead,' " Bowles said. "I was devastated. He was my best friend."

Halfway across the country, Bishop had just walked out of the post office after mailing a Christmas card to Wild Bill when his cell phone rang. He had received a card from Wild Bill - his first of the season - that included stickers of a German eagle and Mickey Mouse, and he wanted to respond quickly.

"I sure did love him, and I sure do miss him," Bishop said. "His going was a great shock."

The sun was shining brightly on the morning Wild Bill met his end. At about 8 a.m., Wild Bill was turning left from Mountain Shoals Road onto Highway 146, and pulled his 1981 Dodge van into the path of a 2000 Volvo tractor-trailer.

Wild Bill wasn't wearing a seat belt and died at the scene. The driver of the tractor-trailer escaped without injury.

Bowles and Bishop say the timing of the accident is suspicious.

"There were no clouds, no fog or rain that morning," Bowles said. "Bill knew those back roads like the back of his hand, and it leaves you wondering how he missed that tractor-trailer. "

Sheldon Hoff said the conspiracy theories are predictable. He said the NSM wants to turn his brother into a martyr for the cause.

Bowles said that's not true. He said Wild Bill's life, and death, made him a martyr.

"This is where we get into the word game," Bowles said. "You can't make someone a martyr. That's like trying to make someone a hero. If you're a martyr, you're a martyr."

Sheldon didn't receive a phone call informing him of his brother's death. About 10 days after the accident he was doing genealogy research online when he came across a story from the Herald-Journal' s Web site.

"I called John Howard, and he said he didn't know we existed," Sheldon said. "I was disappointed, but I'd been feeling disappointed for a long time because of what he's done."

Sheldon has a difficult time squaring his memories of Billy with the image of Wild Bill. Billy was a guy who would go the extra mile to help anyone of any color. Wild Bill was a man consumed by hatred, a creation of the groups he so readily followed.

The family has yet to gather for a memorial service. Sheldon is not sure when, or if, that will happen.

He's resentful of the ceremony that the NSM will hold Saturday. He's angry that the group's hold on Billy outlives Wild Bill.

"We don't have his ashes, we don't even have a button from his clothes," Sheldon said. "They stole him in life, and they're stealing him in death."

Robert W. Dalton can be reached at 562-7274 or

bob.dalton@shj. com.


  1. This is just too rich! And the NSM bunch are livid!

  2. What an amazing story. John Howard and Bill Hoff were next door neighbors in Enoree.

    The NSM will indeed be drawing 200 plus to Columbia and Laurens this weekend, most of them skinheads for a concert.

    They will be eating lunch at Maurcie's BBQ in Cayce on US 321/21/176. The Southern Heritage Shop is right up the road near the Piggly Wiggly and Hardee's.

    I'm staying in SC until this weekend to monitor the events then I will be back in Maryland.

  3. "Monitor the events" Yeah right, fake Jew.

  4. thnx for all that info' on Wild Bill Hoff...some-one i had vaguely heard of but knew next to nuthin' abt!

    'genealogies' can be un-reliable indicators of ancestry;

    only DNA tests would establish whether or not 'Wild Bill' was prt-black: i'v hvn't seen any close-up photo's of this man; so: i can't cmmnt categorically; but: i would venture to suggest that, if he was prt-black, it'd be a very small part indeed!

    it's my under-standing that Condoleesa Rice is ¾-white but clearly still looks 'mulatto'!

    (i read some-where that many white 'Kwans r, in fact, prt-Amerinid?)

  5. Africa is the bread basket of civilization and any archaeologist will tell you this is where human beings first emerged. We are all descended from the same stock. So what is the big deal?

  6. Bill White Watch

  7. Hey, Nikki:

    How come no response or article on the VT shooting?

  8. If the shooter had been white(VT Shooting) Nikki would have ran up her bandwidth by now spouting off the usual stale platitudes about it.

  9. Well Von, I am still somewhat stunned by it all. Additionally, unlike the people over on VNN, I really have a hard time when something like this happens - so many victims - so sad.

    I cannot believe that there are those who want to exploit this tragedy or who insist on breaking things like this down on racial lines. Despicable - that's what they are. There will be an article - I just need to grieve first.

  10. Michael - you really think you have a handle on me - on what I am all about but the more you spout off the more evident it becomes that you really don't know anything.

    I don't see this horrendous thing as having ANYTHING to do with race - period. At least not yet.

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  12. Oh, I got your number, Nikki. I know what you are going to think and say before you do. :)

  13. Oh! Ya think so? I didn't realize you were so talented.

    More information is starting to surface about the shooter - and I think this is a pretty good article:;_ylt=AmOJ67KwSM31GtPAmJBgdYSm1OFF

    Va. Tech gunman writings raised concerns By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer
    22 minutes ago

    The gunman in the Virginia Tech massacre was a sullen loner who alarmed professors and classmates with his twisted, blood-drenched creative writing and left a rambling note in his dorm room raging against women and rich kids.

    A chilling picture emerged Tuesday of Cho Seung-Hui — a 23-year-old senior majoring in English — a day after the bloodbath that left 33 people dead, including Cho, who killed himself as police closed in.

    News reports said that he may have been taking medication for depression and that he was becoming increasingly violent and erratic.

    Despite the many warning signs that came to light in the bloody aftermath, police and university officials offered no clues as to exactly what set Cho off on the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history.

    "He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.

    A student who attended Virginia Tech last fall provided obscenity- and violence-laced screenplays that he said Cho wrote as part of a playwriting class they both took. One was about a fight between a stepson and his stepfather, and involved throwing of hammers and attacks with a chainsaw. Another was about students fantasizing about stalking and killing a teacher who sexually molested them.

    "When we read Cho's plays, it was like something out of a nightmare. The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of," former classmate Ian McFarlane, now an AOL employee, wrote in a blog posted on an AOL Web site. He said he and other students "were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter."

    "We always joked we were just waiting for him to do something, waiting to hear about something he did," said another classmate, Stephanie Derry. "But when I got the call it was Cho who had done this, I started crying, bawling."

    Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said Cho's writing was so disturbing that he had been referred to the university's counseling service.

    "Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if it's creative or if they're describing things, if they're imagining things or just how real it might be," Rude said. "But we're all alert to not ignore things like this."

    She said she did not know when he was referred for counseling, or what the outcome was. Rude refused to release any of his writings or his grades, citing privacy laws. The counseling service refused to comment.

    Cho — who arrived in the United States as boy from South Korea in 1992 and was raised in suburban Washington, D.C., where his parents worked at a dry cleaners — left a note in his dorm room that was found after the bloodbath.

    A government official, who spoke of condition of anonymity because he had not been authorized to discuss details of the case, said the note had been described to him as "anti-woman, anti-rich kid."

    The Chicago Tribune reported on its Web site that the note railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus. ABC, citing law enforcement sources, said that the note, several pages long, explains Cho's actions and says, "You caused me to do this."

    Citing unidentified sources, the Tribune also said Cho had recently set a fire in a dorm room and had stalked some women.

    Monday's rampage consisted of two attacks, more than two hours apart — first at a dormitory, where two people were killed, then inside a classroom building, where 31 people, including Cho, died. Two handguns — a 9 mm and a .22-caliber — were found in the classroom building.

    The Washington Post quoted law enforcement sources as saying Cho died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on one of his arms, but they were not sure what that meant.

    According to court papers, police found a "bomb threat" note — directed at engineering school buildings — near the victims in the classroom building. In the past three weeks, Virginia Tech was hit with two other bomb threats. Investigators have not publicly connected those threats to Cho.

    Cho graduated from Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., in 2003. His family lived in an off-white, two-story townhouse in Centreville, Va.

    Two of those killed in the rampage, Reema Samaha and Erin Peterson, graduated from Westfield High in 2006. But there was no immediate word from authorities on whether Cho knew the two young women and singled them out.

    "He was very quiet, always by himself," neighbor Abdul Shash said. Shash said Cho spent a lot of his free time playing basketball and would not respond if someone greeted him.

    Classmates painted a similar picture. Some said that on the first day of a British literature class last year, the 30 or so students went around and introduced themselves. When it was Cho's turn, he didn't speak.

    On the sign-in sheet where everyone else had written their names, Cho had written a question mark. "Is your name, `Question mark?'" classmate Julie Poole recalled the professor asking. The young man offered little response.

    Cho spent much of that class sitting in the back of the room, wearing a hat and seldom participating. In a small department, Cho distinguished himself for being anonymous. "He didn't reach out to anyone. He never talked," Poole said.

    "We just really knew him as the question mark kid," Poole said.

    One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol. Cho held a green card, meaning he was a legal, permanent resident. That meant he was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of a felony.

    Roanoke Firearms owner John Markell said his shop sold the Glock and a box of practice ammo to Cho 36 days ago for $571.

    "He was a nice, clean-cut college kid. We won't sell a gun if we have any idea at all that a purchase is suspicious," Markell said.

    Investigators stopped short of saying Cho carried out both attacks. But State Police ballistics tests showed one gun was used in both.

    And two law enforcement officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced, said Cho's fingerprints were on both guns, whose serial numbers had been filed off.

    With classes canceled for the rest of the week, many students left town in a hurry, lugging pillows, sleeping bags and backpacks down the sidewalks.

    Jessie Ferguson, 19, a freshman from Arlington, headed for her car with tears streaming down her cheeks.

    "I'm still kind of shaky," she said. "I had to pump myself up just to kind of come out of the building. I was going to come out, but it took a little bit of 'OK, it's going to be all right. There's lots of cops around.'"

    She added: "I just don't want to be on campus."

    On Tuesday afternoon, thousands of people gathered in the basketball arena for a memorial service for the victims, with an overflow crowd of thousands watching on a jumbo TV screen in the football stadium. President Bush and the first lady attended.

    "As you draw closer to your families in the coming days, I ask you to reach out to those who ache for sons and daughters who are never coming home," Bush said.

    Virginia Tech President Charles Steger received a 30-second standing ovation, despite bitter complaints from parents and students that the university should have locked down the campus immediately after the first burst of gunfire.

    Stories of heroism and ingenuity emerged Tuesday.

    Liviu Librescu, an Israeli engineering and math lecturer, was killed after he was said to have protected his students' lives by blocking the doorway of his classroom from the gunman. And one student, an Eagle Scout, survived after using an electrical cord as a tourniquet around his bleeding thigh, a doctor reported.

    Kevin and Cindy Deck of Roanoke met at Virginia Tech and graduated from the school. Their daughter Natalie is a fourth-year architecture student, while son Daniel is a freshman business major.

    "We both went to work this morning," Cindy Deck said. "I teach school, and by the first bell ringing, I thought, I can't do this. I need to be with my kids. It's just one of those days you've got to be with them."

    Her husband added: "We've been struggling with an immediate impulse just to run and grab our kids and bring them home."


    Associated Press writers Stephen Manning in Centreville, Va.; Matt Barakat in Richmond, Va.; Lara Jakes Jordan in Washington; and Vicki Smith, Sue Lindsey and Justin Pope in Blacksburg contributed to this report.

  14. Also - this man was a legal resident of the United States and had been here since 1992.

    Pictures of the victims are starting to appear and they are of different races and ethnicities. This was not a race-based crime. The man was very disturbed.

  15. Von's answer to why this all happened:

    Disclaimer: I think what happened was horrible and seeing our society go down the drain is not pleasurable to watch.

    Many are asking themselves why things like the shooting at VT happened. I will try to keep this short and concise.

    The younger generation has in fact rejected the standards of Western civilization and have embraced nihilism.

    You are going to see more and more youngsters ready to throw their lives away for absolutely nothing. It is unfortunate but that is where American society is. Our so-called institutions of higher learning have contributed to this by deconstructing everything a civil society is built upon—specifically the attack on racial identity.

    We are all witnessing the total rejection of the sacred hedonistic lifestyle and their purveyors.

  16. The cause of this shooting is simple.

    It's called mental illness.

    Something both the shooter and Vonbluvens suffer from & share in common. And considering Vonbluvens at first praised the 911 attacks, then changed his mind and said the Jews were behind 911, shows that Vonbluvens mind set is similar to that of the shooter.

    BW actually put it best with Vonbluvens, that Blevins instead of acting out towards others, acts inward toward himself. Yes, BW posted that on his Yahoo group. I think that is the only difference between this shooter and Vonbluvens.

    And the severely mentally ill Vonbluvens talks about white culture, it is a fact that Japan has a crime rate much much lower than the United States or Western Europe. Maybe if the US would take a cue from Japanese culture, then we might learn something.

    But even with this shooting, it still pales in comparison to what white supremacists did in Oklahoma City.

    But always leave it up to the mentally degraded to bring race into an issue that doesn't involve it.

    Yes, i am comparing the behavior of Blevins to the behavior of that of the shooter at Virginia Tech. It's a 100% positive redflag that needs to be addressed.

  17. Schwartz:

    The shooter was Korean so how does your Japanese utopia figure into this? Do you have a point?

    So I am just like the shooter, eh?

    It's a wonder Nikki or anyone else listens to you. If I was them I would be worried about my credibility going down the hole associating and giving credence to anything you say.

  18. Holocaust survivor at Virginia Tech scarified his own life so that the lives of other students would be saved.

    The e-mails from grateful students arrived soon after Liviu Librescu was shot to death, telling how the Holocaust survivor barricaded the doorway of his Virginia Tech classroom and saved their lives at the cost of his own ...

    "My father blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee," Librescu's son, Joe Librescu, said Tuesday in a telephone interview from his home outside Tel Aviv. "Students started opening windows and jumping out."


    Well Vonbluvens, do you view this guy as a hero for saving the lives of countless students?

  19. Sort of like some stories of guys throwing themselves on grenades.

    I had a Sgt. ask me one time, "Blevins, how many guys do you think accidentally found themselves on top of a grenade when they dove for cover and then they were praised as great heroes?"

    Interesting question, isn't it?

    Don't know if it is true or not; if he did what he said that is commendable.

    I think you already know my position on the "holocaust".

    Hero maybe.Holocaust survivor?-- definately not.

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  21. I will never understand how you can deny something patently undeniable. The mountain of evidence against your "Earth is flat"-comparable viewpoint is gargantuan. You see, the perpetrators left behind all this evidence- hundreds of thousands of intact corpses scattered around the camps and buried in the killing fields of the Einsatzgruppen; mountains of human bones and ash; tens of millions of pages of documents concerning deportations to camps in the East, the murder of over 1 million Jews, Gypsies, and others by the aforementioned Einsatzgruppen, "euthanasia" of Germany's own mentally and physically disabled (you yourself would have been a candidate for that program), etc.; blueprints for gas chambers and crematoria at Auschwitz-Birkenau; the eyewitness testimony of thousands of SS members and others who committed these atrocities, and of course that of the survivors. How are you equipped to "deny" such a thing? What have you got? Something like this, I reckon: "There's no 'prussian blue' coloring in the so-called 'gas chambers'" and "There's no explicit order signed by Hitler to exterminate all the Jews" and "If they really wanted to exterminate every Jew, how come some of the Jews didn't die?"-- that's about all you've got-- pretty f**king pathetic.

    You know it happened. You see it as "an inconvenient truth", so to speak. And that's why you "deny" it. And by the way, who the Hell are you? What are your scholarly credentials that back up your snotty observation "Holocaust survivor?-- definately [sic!] not."

    "Commendable", you call the self-sacrifice of that professor! Damn right. You're not worthy to kiss the feet of such a man.

    ~ Miller

  22. 'miller': "You see, the perpetrators left behind all this evidence- hundreds of thousands of intact corpses scattered around the camps and buried in the killing fields of the Eisnatzgruppen;"

    most of those 'corpses' were typhus/starvation victims, courtesy of Allied carpet bombing....blame the AlLies for their deaths, not the Nazis!
    (those killed by the 'Einsatzgruppen' were armed partisans: who it was perfectly legal to execute as spies under the rules of war both then and now!)

    "tens of millions of pages of documents concerning deportations to camps in the East"; denies there were work camps, not 'extermination' camps!

    "blueprints for gas chambers and crematoria at Auschwitz-Birkenau"

    there were no 'blue-prints' for 'gas chambers', un-less you want to call 'delousing chambers' 'gas chambers'; yes: there were blue-prints for crematoria: to safely and hygiencially dispose of corpses: but: of course: no crematoria of the time could have handled the massive volume of corpses that we have been led to believe over the last 50+yrs were churned out of Auschtwitz over a two/three yr period!
    (it is doubtful if even a modern crematoria could handle such capacities!)

    "the eyewitness testimony of thousands of SS members and others who committed these atrocities, and of course that of the survivors"

    not worth 'a cracker'!: the 'survivors' were/are mainly jews: IOW: congenital liars; the 'SS members' were coerced in one form or another to corroborate 'the party line': such as Rudolf Hoß, the commandant of Auschwitz!
    ('eye-witness testimony' is generally deemed to be pretty much worth-less un-less it closely corroborates and/or is supported by forensics!)

    "How are you equipped to "deny" such a thing?"
    by the application of logic, science and the rules of evidence!

    "What have you got? 'There's no 'prussian blue' colouring in the so-called 'gas chambers''"

    a glaring and major hole in 'the official story': necessary although perhaps not sufficient to topple it!

    "and: "There's no explicit order signed by Hitler to exterminate all the Jews"

    no official order(s);
    no copies of any official Third Reich document categorically implicating any Third Reich official for genocide;
    no Bletchley Park 'ENIGMA' intercepts;
    no official acknowldgement by Winston Churchill that such incidents ever occurred(try his five volume 'History of the Second World War');
    no official acknowldgement by Dwight D Eisenhower that such incidents ever occurred(try his 'Crusade in Europe');
    and so on and so forth!

    irrespective of whether or not you believe in the 'Holocaust', the jews have garnered more than enough sympathy for this event; how come we never hear of: the 50+ million white Russian christians brutally murdered by the judaeo-Bolsheviks or: the five million Ukranians murdered by the same crew during the 1930s or: the 15million ethnic Germans brutally murdered post-WWII?

  23. Jimbo~

    Where's your proof for "15 million" Volksdeutsche killed in the aftermath of World War II?

    Where's your proof that Allied bombing caused the typhus that caused those deaths in the camps? And where's your proof that those people incarcerated were legitimately held behind barbed wire? Because if they weren't- AS they weren't- anything that happened to them behind said wire can only be blamed by those who PUT THEM THERE, to wit- the SS.

    Where's your PROOF that Hoess' confessions were coerced? I'll allow that he might have been roughed up a bit. But coercion of testimony- that requires some proof on your part. Hoess is just one. There were so many postwar trials- notably in West Germany, which had no death penalty and in which most of the perpetrators faced a paltry few years- at the most, life- in prison even for direct complicity in murder actions at concentration camps and by the Einsatzgruppen and Ordnungspolizei. Do you believe that West German authorities tortured them to extract confessions (to please their "string-pullers in Tel Aviv", perhaps?).

    Churchill and Eisenhower didn't mention it so it didn't happen? Rubbish. Just shows they were incomplete chroniclers. In my own book, I forgot to mention the number of times per day that Hermann Goering moved his bowels, but anyone who reads it will still learn a lot about Hermann Goering. Eisenhower stood with Patton at Ohrdruf, as evidenced by photographs, and was sickened and angered by what he saw there.

    I for one have and read a great deal about the crimes of communism. I'm always a little skeptical of the numbers, though- 50 million White Russians alone? Think of how many people that is. Think of the logistics of such an undertaking- which, and I'll allow that I could be completely wrong, seem impossible to me. If Soviet commies could do that, why is it so hard to believe that Nazi Germans could murder a far smaller number of people- 11 million- in the 12 years of the Third Reich? And I note you didn't deny the "T-4" ("euthanasia") program- so, if the Nazis could kill 100,000 of their own flesh and blood, why would they be hesitant to destroy the "sworn enemy" of the Reich, "International Jewry"?

    Oh, and PROVE that Jews, as a people, are more prone to dishonesty than non-Jews. You seem to believe in the importance of backing up allegations with proof, but you just haven't provided any. And your weapon against all the evidence I've cited is to simply deny that it is what it is.

  24. Reports from the Einsatzgruppen indicated the slaughter of upwards of 1 million people. Acknowledgement was made that there were infants among those killed. Acknowledgement was made even in reports of operations specifically designated as "anti-partisan actions" that the number of dead FAR outnumbered the number of weapons captured. "Anti-partisan" was one of many Nazi euphemisms for extermination of innocent Jews (and yes, I'm aware that in your opinion there is no such thing). Antipartisan operations were only a small part of the Einsatzgruppen's work. Their purpose was to cleanse the East of Jews.

    Prove that the 33,771 recorded by Sonderkommando 4a near Kiev at the end of September 1941 were partisans or functionaries of the Communist government, or were in any way a threat to the German occupation of the Ukraine.

    ~ Miller

  25. re: 'miller'

    the proof that the official 'Holocaust' story is largely bogus is contained @ sites like IHR's.....!Google it yr-self: under the relevant sub-headings: 'air photos', 'crematoria ovens','diesel gas chambers', 'gas vans','operation of the gas chambers', 'zyklon B', 'jewish populations in Eastern Europe' &c

    there's more than enough material there to convince me that yr either deluded or prt of the ZOG apparatus!
    (or perhaps you'd like me to just cut 'n' paste slabs from Rudolf's book and post them here?)

    while we're @ it, though: let's see YOU provide some proof that six million kikes went up the chimney!

    and: i mean: PROOF!.....not friggin' kike lies and fairy tales!

    isn't the 'Holocaust' supposed to be a major event in WWII?

    in fact: as we are led to believe: more important than WWII it-self?

    if so: it seems more than strange that Eisenhower and Churchill failed to mention it?

    have you got a rational explanation for why they did not?

    the bolshies murdered 50+million white Russians over a twenty-or-more year period; mostly: they employed the quickest and easiest method for this: shooting people @ or near their locales with pistol shot(s) to the back of the neck; clearly: if the Nazis were intent on mass-murder, this would also have been the most convenient MO for them to adopt .....instead of tying up valuable rolling stock and rail networks by lugging millions of kikes ½-way across Europe!

    (i don't know much abt the Nazi T4 programme: or if it even existed; i believe, how-ever, that there were voiciferous protests from the Catholic Church which either caused it to be abandoned pre-maturely or not 'get off the ground' @ all. the only Nazi eugenics programme that i know of was the 'sterilisation' programme and that was only practised on a limited scale: in fact: a more limited scale than a similar programme in the US....!Google 'Madison Grant' to find out more abt this!.....he personally witnessed it in action and was some-what non-plussed by its mild-ness as compared to the US one!)

  26. re: 'miiler': for the material relating to the murder of 15million ethnic Germans pst-WWII, i mainly rely on this site and books by the Canadian author James Bacque: 'Crimes and Mercies' and 'Other Losses'; although the latter primarily focusses on the gross-mis-treatment of German POWs 1946/1947 in direct violation of the Geneva Convention!

  27. No Blevins, we don't know your view on the Holocaust.

    half the time you are denying it, half the time you are bragging about and wanting "six million more"

    Which is it?

    I guess it depends on the level of depokote in your blood that day.

    As far as holocaust denial, in almost every case, holocaust deniers are Jew haters. The one case where a Jew said the holocaust didn't happen, changed his mind after evidence was shown that it was.

    Two excellent websites for the Holocaust and I would strongly recommend Eye on Hate perhaps doing an Interview with Ken McVay (who also monitors hate groups) of Nizkor are.

  28. And I should note, no one is excusing the behavior of the Soviet communists in killing millions. Nor excusing the behavior of the Communist Chinese.

    But to those who think the USSR was Jewish, why did they close down all t he synagogues and not observe the sabbath at all? And why did USSR supply most of the arms in the Arab world to destroy Israel with?

    Such idiots, I swear.

  29. Most of the Jews in power at the time were in fact atheist...I don't think they would have a problem at all with destroying synagogues. Don't forget they destroyed churches too or did you convienently forget that?

    They sent arms to Palestine and what if they did? There are anti-Zionist Jews concentrated in New York that fought against the formation of Israel. What is your point?

    BTW- I deny that there was a plan by the government of the third reich to carry out a holocaust.

    * I don't deny Jews were despised by Germans and the world at that time
    * I don't deny many of them were arrested (Germany didn't want a repeat of work stoppage or major riots and mutiny--look up who instigated the mutiny at Keil during WW1)
    * I don't deny that Jews died in the German occupied territories (mostly as a result of disease and starvation when supplies ran low due to successful allied bombing raids) I might add German citizens were allowed to starve AFTER the war....don't forget that Eisenhower allowed hundreds of thousands of German soldiers to die pent up in soccer like fiels when there was plenty of food and water around.

    *The Hoes confession was a hoax. He was beat within an inch of his life to sign a document written in English when he didn't speak it

    * No proof exist of the existance of gas chambers (reconstructions and drawings don't count)

    Because I believe this countries like Canada would consider me a "denier," but what truth in world history ever had to be backed up by the threat of punishment by the power of the state? The persecution of those that deny this "truth" is the biggest indicator this may not be the "truth" at all.

    Yes, I deny the Holohoax. And thank God I am an American who is protected by our God given rights. Canada and the rest of the draconian left world be damned!

  30. Mr Schwartz wrote "I would strongly recommend Eye on Hate perhaps doing an Interview with Ken McVay (who also monitors hate groups) of Nizkor are."

    Excellent Idea ! thank you, will look into it -
    Floyd-Eye On Hate

  31. mr schwartz, floyd c: "Mr Schwartz wrote "I would strongly recommend Eye on Hate perhaps doing an Interview with Ken McVay (who also monitors hate groups) of Nizkor are"

    Kenneth McVay, OBE (!) that clown still around?

    i fckn obliterated that ZOG prick yrs ago on USENET!

    (i was posting from i/net cafes in Kyneton & Wood-end, Victoria, Australia back then.....he got a couple of his MOSSAD bum-chums from the Yidsraeli consulate in Melbourne to visit one of them to try & track me down!)


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