Wednesday, August 19, 2009

Secret Agent Man...

Two quotes come to mind after reading the stories that emerged today about Hal Turner, the nefarious right-wing, racist shock-jock currently being held on federal charges of threat and intimidation.

After being charged in Connecticut with inciting people to take up arms against two legislators and a state ethics official, his attorney claimed that Turner was exercising his First Amendment rights. A couple of weeks later Turner was arrested and detained in a federal detention center in Chicago. This time for threatening the lives of three federal judges.

In a surprise courtroom maneuver, Turner and his attorney told the judge that Hal should not have been arrested because he had been working as a federal informant with the FBI and DOJ, to which the judge sarcastically replied, "...so you're telling me he is a model citizen."

Well, model citizen, or not, the judge gave Turner 10 days to produce his "handlers." That never happened. Yesterday Hal's defense attorney, Michael Orozco, appeared before the Conneticut court where he now claims that his client was "trained" by the FBI to be an "agent provocateur." According to the Hartford Courant...

"Mr. Turner was trained by the FBI," Orozco said. "He was told where the line was — what he could say." Turner, of New Jersey, worked as an "agent provocateur" for the FBI from roughly 2002 to 2007, Orozco said.

"His job was basically to publish information which would cause other parties to act in a manner that would cause their arrest," Orozco said. On several occasions, Turner passed on to the FBI information about threats from readers.


As William Shakespeare said so aptly, "All the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players." The drama that has surrounded this case would create a great ABC mini-series. The only thing in question is how many segments and will there be a surprise ending?

Actually, I'm starting to believe that Michael Orozco is now being "trained" by Hal Turner - all of this is a page right off of Turner's blog. First we're told that this upstanding citizen saved the life of President Obama and thwarted the sale of military weapons helping to keep us all safe. Next we'll be expected to believe that upon Hal's orders his mythical army of skinheads interecepted and destroyed a ton of biological weapons off the coast of Bermuda headed for the U.S. Or maybe they have been deployed to assist Sarah Palin when Putin does his fly-by over Alaska.

Now, it's not that I believe that federal law-enforcement is above using others as Turner is claiming. But if Hal has been trained by them in such a manner, they really never got to the part about house-breaking him. He might have flown under the radar of the truly gullible and the really desperate - but there were several who just recognized him for precisely what he was.

Did the feds really train Turner - I don't know. What I do know is that monitoring, by the federal government, of groups or individuals because of their beliefs or ideas is nothing new. We have but to look back to the 70's at the COINTELPRO scandal to understand that this is the standard of operations. However, "monitoring" conjures up a lot of negatives. Watching and even infiltrating is common among law-enforcement agencies. Provoking people into violent action is something else altogether.

If there is a modicum of truth in what Hal's attorney is asserting...if, in fact, Hal Turner (or anyone else for that matter) was being used for the purpose of inciting others to commit violence - that is immoral and highly unethical and should be illegal.

As I look back over the years in which I warned that I believed Hal to be more valuable on the outside rather than behind bars, I am struck by many incidents - but two, in particular, really stand out...incidents that should have raised a red flag for any of his followers.

1) The whole affair surrounding the murders of Judge Joan Lefkow's mother and father. Hal was quick to take credit and immediately published the personal information of other judges he believed to be worthy of attention. Although there was a media frenzy around the killings and several white supremacists associated with Matt Hale were rounded up and questioned - Hal Turner wasn't touched.

2) A couple of years ago when anti-immigration rallies were being held all across the country, Hal Turner posted and broadcasted how and where explosive devices could be placed in a public park where a pro-immigration rally was to be held. He wasn't touched.

Disparaged by many of those he claimed to represent, Hal Turner continued to issue threats and suggest violence against many entities, always unscathed. He awaits trial in Chicago and charges in Conneticut, apparently out of favor with those who he now claims were responsible for his actions. Will he be rescued? Was he valuable enough to be saved. I doubt it.

Hal claims to have been on the payroll between 2003 and 2007. But, you see, he didn't stop. He continued to operate just as he always had even though he was no longer part of the team. He overestimated his importance - and he lost. It would also seem that he has convinced Orozco that he was a lot more valuable than is true. Turner remains hopeful - because, as he said he "...really isn't cut out for this." But as Henry Ellis once said, "The place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum."

Throughout life, we all play the roles we invent for ourselves. We create our own persona and we strive everyday to get it right. Some get so caught up in the drama that the fantasy becomes our reality - and it bites.

34 comments:

  1. I agree with you Nikki, I can't see Hal as a paid informant. I happen to know a bit about them and Hal Turner just couldn't have given them anything worth while. Generally the FBI doesn't pay their informants. The informants give up what they know to avoid jail or to lessen their sentences.

    Hal Turner is a disturbed man, like most of the "Pro White Movement" he is crazy. He is spinning any tale he can in an effort to get his fat ass out of trouble but it doesn't seem to be working. None of his lies are helping him. He needs to shut his mouth and try to act more like a man.

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  2. Raoul says...

    "Hal Turner is a disturbed man, like most of the "Pro White Movement" he is crazy. He is spinning any tale he can in an effort to get his fat ass out of trouble but it doesn't seem to be working. None of his lies are helping him. He needs to shut his mouth and try to act more like a man."

    Ya know - he must have this Orozco guy absolutely mesmerized or something...this just came out:

    HERE

    "But behind the scenes the reformed white supremacist was holding clandestine meetings with FBI agents who taught him how to spew hate “without crossing the line,” according to his lawyer, Michael Orozco.

    “Almost everything was at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation,” Orozco said in a 45-minute telephone interview from New Jersey. “Their job was to pick up information on the responses of what he was saying and see where that led them. It was an interesting dynamic on what he was being asked to do.”

    “He’s a devoted American,” added the lawyer, who claims Turner was paid “tens of thousands of dollars” for his service.

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  3. Read the Motion To Dismiss HEREif you haven't already.

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  4. During the Cointelpro days the feds did more than just "monitor" Nikki.

    Google that shit.

    Did the FBI train Turner to do this or advised him? I don't know, but I wouldn't doubt it if they did.

    Does that relieve Turner of any responsibility? The short answer is NO.

    What disturbs me is that we have a government that possibly (of course not proven)tried to incite people to do illegal acts.

    That IS disturbing.

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  5. Government trains a person to incite violence in order to have more people to arrested? Check.

    Government trained person (allegedly) incites violence as taught by the government. Check.

    Government gets angry because violence was incited. Check, check and check!

    Government fails to see the hypocrisy ... or the fact that NONE of the "radical right" took up arms despite THE GOVERNMENT'S ATTEMPTS TO MAKE BELIEVER'S IN LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE CONSTITUTION APPEAR TO BE CRIMINAL EVEN WHEN THEY ARE LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS!

    Government wonders why we the people are upset.

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  6. "His job was basically to publish information which would cause other parties to act in a manner which would lead to their arrest," Orozco said.

    Let me see if I have this straight: The federal government has a department in the FBI dedicated to provoking people to commit crimes so they can be arrested?

    It is time to eliminate 90% of everything the federal government does. Your tax dollars are being used to increase crime and entrap and imprison people with "undesirable" political opinions.

    It is hard to believe I can type those words and have NONE of it be an exageration.

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  7. “Almost everything was at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation,” Orozco said in a 45-minute telephone interview from New Jersey. “Their job was to pick up information on the responses of what he was saying and see where that led them. It was an interesting dynamic on what he was being asked to do.”


    Holy Shit! Jesus, I hope this is bullshit, I don't even want to think of the ramifications if it isn't.

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  8. So, essentially the government lied when it said it stopped Cointelpro operations back in the 70S.

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  9. There is a part of me that doesn't want to believe this, but my gut tells me this is probably the truth.

    Hal Turner definitely was one of those salute-the-flag motherfuckers.

    I could actually see this dolt thinking he was doing a great service to his country by doing this.

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  10. Nikki, you must have forgotten when Hal published all the addresses of the House and Senate (to include home addresses) during the debate and proposed bill on immigration.

    He got away with it...that WAS within the timeframe...2007.

    Surely, threatening ALL MEMEBERS OF CONGRESS was more serious than allegedly threatening judges.

    Do you not remember that?

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  11. Raoul,

    I have to disagree with you. The Feds often DO pay informants. Ask Dave Gletty.

    What Turner is saying (given the DOJs history of the 60s) is plausible.

    If it was true...no they would not testify on his behalf...they will neither confirm or deny it...that's how they operate.

    Raoul, you don't know as much as you think you do.

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  12. Secret agent man...

    They given you a numba...

    And taken' way your name...


    Love that song. lol

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  13. Oh, I remember the COINTELPRO shit very well - and you are right, they did a lot more than just monitor.

    One anon says...

    "Government fails to see the hypocrisy ... or the fact that NONE of the "radical right" took up arms despite THE GOVERNMENT'S ATTEMPTS TO MAKE BELIEVER'S IN LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE CONSTITUTION APPEAR TO BE CRIMINAL EVEN WHEN THEY ARE LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS!"

    Gimme a break, would ya. Do you honestly believe that if arrests were made, plots were uncovered, etc. that you would know who the snitch was? Do you honestly believe that the headline would read, "FEDERAL INFORMANT & SLEAZE-BAG HAL TURNER FOILS BOMB PLOT?"

    I am sick to death of people who say, "No one ever went to jail because of Hal Turner." How stupid is that?

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  14. All of this coming out of Orozco's mouth still sounds very Turneresque to me.

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  15. I used to work for the FBI and no I can't see them paying Hal Turner. You tell me he did it for free, okay if he was giving them good info maybe they listened but an informant that they paid thousands of dollars to? No, the FBI does not work like that. Someone would have to have justified that in a budget statement. The only way that Turner to get that kind of money would be if he had mob connections or was giving them drug gang members. I seriously doubt Turner was paid this kind of money.

    You also have to look into the time that Hal was supposedly informing it was 2002 to 2007. The Bush Administration was not that concerned about right winged groups getting out of hand.

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  16. Tony Evola was a paid informant but he was paid to infiltrate the WCOTC and to bring out the goods not just post things on a blog or run his mouth on the radio.

    Also - anon @9:18 - you are so right. I had almost forgotten about Hal putting up all that info on Congress - and he was never touched.

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  17. But you don't know, do you Raoul?

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  18. hal turner and every white supremicist group are under 24/7 federal monitoring.
    david duke, alex linder, don black, bill white commander rockwell, all were and are federal informants used to attract anyone with ideas of white nationalism.

    even if i were inclined to join a white party i would not because they are all started and run and funded by the feds.

    hal turner admits publically that he entrapped people for the feds. he did it. he admits he did it. only the stupid would not believe his own admission.

    david duke is a convicted felon. he did it he admitted he did it.

    even still, white people who want to descuss why their culture is deteriorating have no plave to turn except to a cesspool of snitches, informants, provocateurs and criminals.

    what a sorry state white america has become.

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  19. The FBI has to manufacture, incite, make up scenarios to bring out crime? Seems every time they are involved in a high profile case some informant paid by them is the instigator, paying the way with lots of cash and incentives to get everybody playing along whether they are indeed a party or not, Pay them enough money and if they are an unemployed minority they might play along. Thats not crimefighting its called crime creation.

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  20. Hal Turner was doing to americans what the FBI regularly does to muslim “terrorist suspects” here and abroad to sustain the phony “war on terror”. They fund them, arm them, try and provoke them. And they always try and target dumb people. And even dumber people fall for it all.

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  21. Doesnt suprise me, the FBI/CIA works with these people to try to get citizens in trouble. I wonder who else is on the payroll? Anderson Cooper? Sean Hannity? Keith Olbermann?

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  22. Hal Turner knew about, and made public knowledge, all the criminal activities by the NJ Democrats and the Jews years ago. His incarceration has nothing to do with threatening judges. The truth will come forth.

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  23. Something fishy here? False flag, from within the Government, against the Government. There is more than meets the eye here, stay tuned.

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  24. If this isn't a wake up call to conservatives that their freedoms are being infringed upon than I don't know what is...the FBI is trying to incite right wingers into getting locked up

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  25. Such government agent incitement, a common type of "false flag" operation, is not restricted only to the matter of ObamaCare or only to the USA:

    http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=1791002

    http://ezralevant.com/2009/07/how-many-nazis-work...

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  26. Agent provocateurs have been infiltrating conservative groups since the 60's. Some are government agents and some are sponsored by various leftwing groups. The main purpose of the leadership of many of these groups it to make its members and cause look foolish.

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  27. Oh god, please. Conservative groups can make fools of themselves without government help. The only one on here besides Nikki making any sense is Raoul. Hal wasn't no goddamn paid informant. Fucking please. He is a habitual liar.

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  28. And you Hal Wannabee are a Nigger Dick Sucking Bastard.

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  29. Speaking of making fools of themselves....there goes the Pedo....again.

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  30. Anonymous said...
    But you don't know, do you Raoul?


    This is of course true. I don't really know. Some of what Orozco has said does sort of sound like what Hal has done over the years. However, I just don't believe that FBI would give Hal money to do this. If Hal was indeed a paid FBI informant he would have had to at some point in time testified against someone or at the very least put someone behind bars.

    If this is indeed not some pipe dream of Turner's then where are the people he put in jail and where are the agents that can back up Hal's story. So far these have been absent from court. What we do know, however is that Hal Turner was receiving a SSI "crazy check" from the government.

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  31. Hal Wannabee, that is Mr. Turner to you, and no he is not a liar. He is doing and saying what he needs to to beat these Bullshit trumped up charges.

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  32. Listen child molester, no one gives a shit about your opinion. Got it bitch?

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  33. Listen here, Anonymous Pussy. You can have your Ass stomped for running your Fucking hole. The best thing you can do is Shut the Fuck up and go suck another Nigger Dick

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  34. Listen up Holestain, little birdie just told me your son Chris might just did something bad today ;)

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