Thursday, October 23, 2008
OFFENSIVE BILL WHITE
Every once in awhile a comment finds its way to this blog that is worthy of discussion in a more public arena and the post submitted by silentconsort is, I believe, deserving of such a discussion. He offers the following:
The problem with nailing BW to the multi-culti cross is he didn't actually DO anything. Sure, maybe he pushed the envelope with the magazine, and while he might have thought that was great timing and in-your-face imagery, perhaps it wasn't the wisest move in light of general election paranoia and especially this one.
What the feds are trying to do is get him on the context of the situation- even though no actual crime has been committed that I am aware of. No one has been physically harmed and no direct threats made. Can you lock someone up for simply being offensive in America? Are they trying to equate offensive with actual danger?
Given BW's background as a far-left radical type, it doesn't surprise me he likes to push limits. The uniforms,the site, the attitude are in-your-face. The attitude on the audio- while certainly knowledgeable about many topics, is also at times somewhat full of himself.
While it is true that anyone who isn't cheering for open-borders and erasure of culture that is happening in the USA gets called an EvilNaziRacistHater,the part that does surprise me is that it was he that was targeted- not to mention the timing of the magazine, the 9/11 posting and subsequent arrest, which leads me to believe he came under scrutiny through candidate security , then someone found the post and decided to make something of it. Feds are not going to wait 6 years and then use a simple post of personal information, juror or not, if they really wanted White- what surprises me is that he was actually looked at by many in nationalism as kind of being sensational and to expect what he wrote would usually be embellished, to make a tale more interesting or forum gab-worthy,what is called in some circles a political 'gad-fly'. Makes a lot of noise, sometimes even embarrassingly so, but is basically harmless. That is the surprising part, though it shouldn't be.
In any cause, it is easy to slip into a kind of solipsism, and not be able to see how outside forces view the same thing. I don't believe they have a real case here, but I am sure in the interest of trying to shut down unpopular speech, they will trump up the charges and make White out to be this scary, sinister character that one can quite clearly hear he is not when listening to the audios.
In the land where Mary Winkler can shoot her husband, get 7 MONTHS, and then get her 3 kids back, in the land where being an accessory to a double murder carries just 9 years per life (and will probably not even serve that) for Christian/Newsom killings, in the land where a white 7 year old gets a skull fracture and is left unconscious by classmates and the school doesn't apologize says a 7 year old is 'no innocent bystander' when outnumbered and outgunned...... can we really afford to lock up someone for making site posts because we don't like what they say, because of how they dress, their political ideals? A very slippery slope.
BW, while he may be known, and either respected or laughed at or hated, depending on what side of the fence one is on (and sometimes not!), he has not caused actual physical harm. Part of the whole multi-culti white privilege deal is always wanting everything to be equal and fair, is it not? is it 'fair' and 'just' to hang BW's body from the scaffold just so you can say "nyah nyah, we won" just because you don't like him, how he comes across, his friends, his site, his clothes, his brand of nationalism, politics, etc?
I know NN and FC have had an internet 'hard-on' for BW for a long time-but think back to what I said about what is Actually Fair and Right as far as realizing that Nothing Happened as far as this particular case is concerned. No harm was done. See if you can separate the personal grudge and the 'nyah nyah' factor from what is right, regardless of your personal feelings about White.
October 23, 2008 4:30 PM
First, let me say thank you for the well-thought-out post. Sometimes we all should be challenged to step back and take a look at things - assess our motives - and spend some time in introspection.
I have an admission to make. When Matt Hale was first arrested I was elated. And then the indictment came across my desk. As I read through the charges, I shook my head and thought, “this will not hold up in court.”
I contacted a couple of people who I know and who possess much greater understanding of such things and was told not to worry. They assured me that the government had a solid case against Hale and that all that was found in the indictment was only what they needed to bring about an arrest. Even with these assurances, I was still unconvinced.
However, as the entire process began to move forward, additional charges were brought and eye-opening evidence and testimony came forth with each new motion filed.
In the case of Matthew Hale, it is no secret that he had been under investigation for years. From the time of the Benjamin Smith shooting spree in July of 1999, the government wanted to nail him. Many believed and still do, myself included, that Smith acted under orders, implied or overt, from Hale.
Matt knew he was being watched. He knew that law-enforcement wanted nothing more than to put him in prison but because of his insatiable need for attention and acceptance, he was unable to reign in his manipulative nature and to further his believes through legal means.
Once he came to trial – I believed he would be found guilty and that he would be sentenced to, perhaps, 20 years. He got 40.
Now, with Hale, he was being considered a domestic terrorist – and one could argue that the sentence was excessive given the claim that silentconsort makes in reference to Bill White that no one had been harmed and he didn’t really DO anything. But, is that true?
Like Hale, Bill White has been under investigation for a very long time. This is not something that just popped up in the last few months. Bill knew that – he even wrote about it time and time again.
Also, like Hale, he couldn’t help himself. Just as the federal government built a case against Hale, I suspect, they have built a case against White. They have, undoubtedly, cultivated witnesses and perhaps even utilized informants to bring this thing to fruition. Of course, I’m speculating as it is way too soon to know everything.
Those things being said, the questions that arise in the post made here, are viable and worthy of consideration, for certain. SC asks, “Can you lock someone up for simply being offensive in America? Are they trying to equate offensive with actual danger?”
Within the system of the law a jury in a criminal case is asked to find guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt,” and I think that is the key here. All of this will hinge on what a jury believes is “reasonable.” Is it “reasonable” for the average person to believe that they were in danger when a neo-Nazi, with a following, regardless of how bogus his inflated numbers were, published their home addresses, places of employment, personal information on their family members, etc. and encouraged other neo-Nazi’s to pay them a visit, extract justice, lynch them, or otherwise murder them?
Personally, I think, given the hideous things posted by Bill White on his website that most responsible jurors would think that it is “reasonable” to believe that he placed many, many people in “actual danger.”
Additionally, I find the use of the word “offensive” a gross understatement of what was published on Overthrow.com. Using racial epithets, excessive cursing, pornography, etc. might all fall under the definition of “offensive,” but calling for the assassination, the lynching, or the murder of another individual, goes way beyond being merely “offensive.”
Even as a “far-left radical type” as the author has dubbed him, White was given to superfluous buffoonery and a “pushing of the envelope” as indicated. However, he has also long been considered unstable and dangerous by many on all points of the political continuum. For me, the surprise has been in his ability to garner any semblance of a following, albeit always short-lived.
Attempts to characterize calls for violence as mere hate-speech is to be expected among those who went from racists to racialists and Nazi’s to Nationalists and is pretty characteristic of the grooming school of white supremacists run by Don Black and known as Stormfront. Euphemisms such as these do not diminish the fact that those who engage in the kinds of reprehensible behaviors associated with Matt Hale and Bill White always seem to find themselves on the outside of our society looking in.
Yes, there are injustices in this world. And yes, there are inequalities. Bad things happen to good people and there are way too many victims. However, the argument that “nothing happened” or “he didn’t do anything” doesn’t wash here. By that logic, the authorities should have stood by and waited for one of his targets to be killed. There have been victims of Bill White’s reign of terror – and believe me that is precisely what it was to those who felt the wrath of his hate.
Ask anyone of his many targets how the fear affected them. Tell me that anyone should have to fear for his safety or that of his family, should have to look over his shoulder every minute, should wonder and worry that he may be in the crosshairs of some unstable Nazi who hates him just because of the color of his skin or his religion or sexual orientation. Tell me those people aren’t victims.
And, what about the ones who were the inadvertent targets? The ones who simply had their addresses published because they had the same last name as his intended target? Or the ones who simply worked at the Roanoke Times and didn’t even have the foggiest idea of who Bill White was? What about the people who got threatening letters from the ANSWP because they were black? These were all victims of Bill White.
At the same time you worry about his rights and the freedoms of people in this county, Bill White’s solution is that if he doesn’t like what they say – silence them. Kill them. Shut them the hell up. Scare them, intimidate them, trample their rights, at any cost. Yet, he didn’t DO anything.
What other evidence the government might have on White is still to be divulged. Surely there is more to come. The only real outrage I feel at the moment – the only injustice that I can see in all of this is that there is someone else out there just as guilty of the same things as Bill White and he has yet to be dealt with. Hal Turner has consistently engaged in the same sort of egregious behavior as Bill White – and perhaps even more prolifically. To this day he still credits his postings as the catalyst to the Lefkow murders. Yet, he is allowed to continue. That’s not justice.
Contrary to what silentconsort proffers, this is not about personal grudges or personal feelings about Bill White. I agree, right is right. If a case cannot be made against White, then I will say shame on the entity that arrested him. But, having been down this road before, I’m not going to count the feds out at this point.
I believe that Bill White is clinically insane. I really do. If he isn’t tried and convicted then, at the very least, I hope that he is evaluated and placed somewhere where he can receive the treatment I believe that he needs. But, most importantly, I hope that no one ever has to be victimized by White again.
Posted by Nikki at 10/23/2008 06:19:00 PM