Tuesday, October 27, 2009

Okay....Talk To Me....

For the most part, I have tried to stay away from this whole issue largely because it is such a heated one and generates much passion on the part of those both in favor and those opposed. Also, generally speaking, I part ways with most of my liberal-minded cohorts on the issue of abortion, believing that all too often abortions are sought as a means of birth-control rather than necessity.

However, the recent developments surrounding Scott Roeder, the man accused of murdering late-term abortion provider George Tiller, have caused me to want discussion and input on the fund-raising efforts that are underway to provide him with what is being called a "Necessity Defense."

What do you think?

1)Should abortion be legal?

2)When should late-term abortion be legal?

3)Should Roeder, the Army of God, and their followers be considered terrorists?

4)Will such a defense ever be effective in a jury trial?

5)In your opinion, was Roeder justified?


Posted on Sat, Oct. 24, 2009
Online auction to raise funds in Scott Roeder case
The Kansas City Star
An Army of God manual. A prison cookbook compiled by a woman doing time for abortion clinic bombings and arsons. An autographed bullhorn.

These are among the items that abortion foes plan to auction on eBay and other Web sites in a fundraiser for Scott Roeder, the Kansas City man charged with killing Wichita abortion doctor George Tiller.

“This is unique,” said Regina Dinwiddie, a Kansas City anti-abortion activist who will sign the bullhorn. “Nobody’s ever done this before. The goal is that everybody makes money for Scott Roeder’s defense.”

One abortion-rights leader called the auction deplorable and said it could lead to more violence.

“The network of extremists promoting and defending the murder of doctors is contributing to escalating threats against clinics and doctors across the country,” said Kathy Spillar, executive vice president of the Feminist Majority Foundation.

Roeder, charged with first-degree murder in the May 31 shooting of Tiller, is scheduled to go to trial in January.

Dave Leach, an Iowa abortion opponent who is organizing the auction effort, said he was aiming for a Nov. 1 launch.

EBay would not reveal whether eBay would permit the auction to launch.

“EBay does not allow listings that promote or glorify violence, hate, racial or religious intolerance, or items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity,” the company said in a statement.

Among items that will go on the auction block, Dinwiddie said, are three drawings she received in the mail Wednesday from Roeder. Two drawings were done by another inmate at his direction, but Roeder autographed all of them.

“They’re wonderful pencil art drawings,” she said. “They were done in jail.”

One is a sketch of David and Goliath.

“It has David with a slingshot in one hand and the head of Goliath in his other hand and the name ‘Tiller’ on Goliath’s forehead,” she said. “On the corpse on the ground, it says ‘child-murdering industry.’ ”

Leach said he was continuing to collect items.

His own donation: An Army of God manual, an underground publication for anti-abortion militants that describes dozens of ways to shut down clinics, including bombing. Leach published a reprint of the manual in 1996 in his magazine, Prayer and Action News.

“I plan to cover up the offending eight pages of bomb recipes and instead insert a note saying that in order to avoid legal problems, we advise our bomb-loving friends to seek their bomb recipes in a U.S. Army Manual, which is approved by the Justice Department,” Leach said. “I will also enclose my April 1996 issue, which contains bomb-making excerpts from a declassified U.S. Army Manual widely available in Army surplus stores.”

Another item to be auctioned, Leach said, is a collection of recipes compiled in prison by Shelley Shannon, the Oregon woman who shot and wounded Tiller in 1993 and was later convicted in a series of abortion clinic arsons and bombings.

“When they have birthdays or something in prison, they don’t have access to bake a cake,” said Leach, who recently paid a visit to Shannon in a Minnesota prison. “So they’ve figured out how to make quite a number of confectionary things.”

One recipe is for prison cheesecake, he said.

“It starts of with four little plastic tubs of pudding, a container of powdered creamer, a packet of powdered lemonade, and a little tub of cream cheese, like what you put on bagels, and stir it all together,” he said. “Shelley said it’s really pretty good.”

Leach said Shannon also is donating “her awesome handwritten book of commentary on the news and her part in it over the past few years, including her original cartoons.”

Dinwiddie, who made headlines in 1995 when a federal judge ordered her to stop using a bullhorn within 500 feet of abortion clinics, will contribute several items.

Dinwiddie is a friend of Roeder. She also was a friend of Paul Hill, who shot an abortion doctor and his escort to death in Pensacola, Fla., in 1994. Hill received a death sentence for the killings and was executed in 2003.

“Regina is digging out her old VHS tapes of Paul Hill in her home praying before Shelley’s trial,” Leach said. “She wants to start that one off at $500.”

The bullhorn autographed by Dinwiddie is similar to those she used when protesting outside abortion clinics.

“My original ones have all been confiscated by police,” Dinwiddie said, “but I’ll have a signed one, since I was the only person in the whole world that’s ever had an injunction against a bullhorn.”

Michael Bray, an Ohio activist who spent four years in prison for the firebombings of abortion-related facilities on the East Coast in the 1980s, is donating an autographed copy of his book, “A Time to Kill.” The book is described as “an ethical treatise on the use of force in defense of the child in the womb.”

Leach said the auction was intended to raise money for the defense of Roeder, who was being represented by public defenders.

Leach and others would like to help Roeder hire a lawyer to present what is known as a necessity defense. That strategy would argue that Tiller was killed to prevent a greater harm — killing babies. Other anti-abortion activists charged with violent crimes have tried to use such a defense but with little success.

“If we are not successful in finding a lawyer we can afford, we will distribute the money to prisoners who have sacrificed their years for the cause of saving lives,” Leach said.

Roeder said in a phone interview that he was excited about the auction.

“I think it’s great,” he said. “I appreciate all of the efforts going into that. I’m all for anything that might bring some donations in.”

But he declined to comment about whether he would use such a defense.

For their part, abortion-rights advocates said the auction was appalling.

“The idea of an eBay auction featuring a video of Paul Hill, who murdered a doctor and volunteer clinic escort; the work of Shelley Shannon, who attempted to murder Dr. Tiller; and the writings of Michael Bray and Dave Leach, individuals who promote the killing of doctors, is reprehensible,” Spillar said.

In another effort to support Roeder, Leach has produced a series of videos that he released on several Web sites, including YouTube. In the videos, Leach suggests that Roeder may not get a real trial by jury because the judge probably would refuse to allow jurors to hear why Roeder “had to do what he did.”

In his videos, Leach is “interviewed” by two girls, ages 8 and 10, who play the role of reporters on “Pee Wee TV.”


  1. The issue here for me, Nikki is that a bunch of old krusty men are trying to force the issue. They would like to take away a woman's right to choose and tell her what to do with her body. They are attempting to circumvent the laws and use terrorist tactics.

  2. Yea, you're right Cindy. You should be able to kill a baby when ever you want. Afterall, it is your baby to kill. Not being able to kill is a Krusty Old man view on things.


    May God bless this angel. She has suffered some mental disabilities from the botched abortion but she is doing well.

  3. So...Hooch...I take it that you are totally against abortion?

    Cindy...do you believe that the father of the child should have input?

  4. It just all depends, Nikki. If he is willing to take responsiblity for the child and help support it, yes he should have input. I don't think that abortion should be a first option.

    What is with Hooch is he mental?

  5. Cindy, don't sweat Hooch he is a know it all asshole. Proven liar and his "facts" are usually wrong, just ignore him. Kind of wonder why he wasn't included in this Douchebag of the Year poll. Oh Wait, he is since he is most likely VonWelfare. LOL.

    Douchebag of the Year

  6. So Hooch you justify the murder of Dr. Tiller? You really are trash.

  7. I'm tired of people telling me what to do with my body as well. See, I love to get in fist fights. But you see, it's been a while since I got into a one. A big guy like me, it's a real shame that I can't just do as I please with my fists. Being powerful and kicking ass is part of what makes me a man. No sissy woman has the right to make a law that tells me I can't just punch my way out of any situation I'd rather not be in. Why can't I live in a world where if someone, for example, destroys my property, I can just pound them senseless? It's my right as a man to use my natural given traits.

    And you might say, Drake, what about the defenseless, what if you beat up one of them? Oh yeah? What about me? What do I get out of letting someone off the hook out of mercy? Think of the ways I could be inconveinced! Do we want to go continue this oppressive practice of obeying laws, relying on judges and law makers to dispense justice?

    In all seriousness, I've been to a good many abortion protests. I've firmly decided that it's not my cause. It's barely even a white cause since most abortions are carried out by non-whites. You see very, very few non-white abortion activists in contrast. Rape, incest, ect---use common sense people.

    The main thing that kind of makes me shake my head are the people who are so fantically pro-choice are also fantically anti-racist/white. That's funny because you know who always gets accussed of wanting to say who lives and who dies? Guess? I'll give you a hint, first name: Adolf. The same arguement that's used to justify killing a baby would fit just fine into a Hollywood script where a Nazi justifies "the death camps." That's an anology that can be expanded on. Be my guest.

    As a father, I don't see how anyone could do it. I can imagine after a few sonagram (sp?) visits, my wife telling me she wanted to kill CB. And what would be my rights?

    So am I against abortion? Yes, killing babies is wrong. Folks can twist things around and around to justify a lot of bullshit that you are a bigot or a hater for not liking but not that.

  8. This steroid using pussy (Drake) doesn't get into fist fights with men. Oh no he beats on women. What a pussy.

  9. I bet if I made a stop a Gulfport Mississippi Drake wouldn't be so brave.

  10. Let me tells youins sumthin' that bastard posting here as me, Chris Drake. Welp he ain't really me. I am the one and only Chris Drake and he better hope I don't get off my fat ass long enough to open a package of whup ass on him.

  11. Don't know what an analogy is, huh? That's some tuff luck. I'm not about to go and waste my time explaining it. The intelligent people on this blog get it.

    Let me ask you a question, "Mike Burks". Before you started impersonating people, did you ever consider that the people you doing are known by folks in real life? Thats a real tell-tale sign of a Internet-Only type. Real life is this rarely considered factor.

    So Burks, can you tell me this...who did you sit beside in Roanoke when we all went out to dinner with Bill? Who was sitting next to me? What good natured prank did you play on me as we were leaving? What did I take out and start cleaning during the last hour of the meeting? Where did we go for lunch that day? Get any ONE of those questions right and I'll think it's really you.

  12. Listen fake Drake, I don't answer to you. Anyone who knows me just has to read my blog and they will know I am the real me. You sound a lot like that pussy Alex Linder.

  13. Oh and about the killing of "Doctor" Tiller...I'd hate to live in a world where a guy like that just walked around in public. Honestly. I'm not a Christian or anything like that but late term abortion...if that's not cold blooded murder, then there's no such thing. It's good to see someone who really believes in something rather than jawing about it on the internet all day.

    CB came to this world early. I won't get into all of that but she popped up ahead of schedule. Naturally, she lived.

    Thinking of someone who would kill a little person like that, deny them a chance...that just sickens me. That even transends natural racial boundaries. Remember that late term abortions involve killed a fully formed child. In the Tiller shooting, they are trying to brush that fact aside and just make him out to be some sort of hero. If you ever want to know the evil that exists on that side of the fence, please refer to the treatment of this insident.

    We all have a tendancy to be overly concerned with what can be had in a hurry. Cost doesn't matter as long as you can get credit. Health? Fast food is fast and dying from it is slow. Race? Better to recite propaganda now than to risk being viewed in a negative light. Immigration? Better for a short slogan now than a long term solution later.

    We build everything on our child like need to have everything right now and with the least ammount of trouble---this is true from material things to ideology. But that's people and for the first time in history, you can actually have and have in a hurry. You can offer a pre-packaged opinion rather than be expected to pick up your weapon. Not even the helpless babies are safe from us. You've got groups like PETA who will attack a scientist who experiments on animals but are totally okay with abortion. Poor rabbit! What? A child trying to inconvience someone? Kill it before some krusty old white biggot trys to stop you!

    Anyhow, I know we can expect the coat-hanger arguement to rear it's head any time now. If you take away a person's right to kill the young in a medical facility, then you force them to risk their lives taking lives themselves. Is there any wonder in this world that there is support for gun control in this same country?

    Anyone want to comment on that aspect of it?

  14. "natural racial boundies" what kind of sick person are you that uses terms like that? Oh wait you are that guy who wipes his butt with his sock.

    And speaking of gun control Mr. Sock Wiper, it is because of people like you that I am thinking maybe it is not such a bad idea. Get help and put your guns somewhere safe until you stop your drinking.

  15. """Nikki said...So...Hooch...I take it that you are totally against abortion?"""

    I am struggling with abortion in the case of RAPE or child molestation. It is a human life but my main problem is that we don't have factual information whether or not poor genetics can be passed on in the case of the criminal mentality. And to force a woman to have the child of a rapist seems pretty bad to me, even though the human life could be perfectly fine.

    """Cindy Adams said...
    What is with Hooch is he mental?"""

    Not particularly, just pointing out how ridiculous your statement is that a woman should have the right to choose whether or not she kills her baby and no one should be able to tell her what she can do with her baby.

    That is the statement that a very evil person would say. I'm sure you are not evil, but you are just quoting the argument of others that are. You are just a spring chicken and still forming your views. Hopefully you take my sarcastic statement with a grain of salt and at least recognize that you are killing a baby when you allow a doctor to suck it out of you and tear it apart limb by limb. Maybe if you watched some actual abortion footage you would change your mind.

    """Dumb4Life said...
    So Hooch you justify the murder of Dr. Tiller? You really are trash."""

    Who said that dipshit? Can you tell me exactly where I ever said that I support killing someone because you don't agree with them? I am not an anarchist and do believe in the rule of law as long as the laws are just which obviously murder laws are. The doctor should have been fought in court, tried for murder due to the babies being late term and sentenced to death. One single man does not have the right to play God.

    """Anonymous said...I bet if I made a stop a Gulfport Mississippi Drake wouldn't be so brave."""

    Why don't you make a stop in Roanoke Virginia and see if I am?

  16. Hey fake me...you've got it all wrong. On your blog it talks about me living in a trailer. I live in my mom's mom's sub-basement. I live there with my wife or girlfriend that I beat constantly. I'm either on welfare, driving a forklift or working at Burger King.

    I just thought I'd help you out with your info. You got the dressed up like a commando, running through the woods part right. I feel a power like no other once I get that charged up airsoft gun in my hand. You don't know life until you run your fat self through the forest yelling, "white power" and "heil Hitler" at the top of your lungs while shooting hundreds of plastic balls all over the place. This Christmas mama says I can have another pair of BDU's to play soldier in as long as I don't get charged with domestic violence again in 2009.

  17. Cindy Adams = Cold Butter.

  18. Chief Sick of IT!October 28, 2009 9:50 AM

    Cold Butter is a gurl? I thought Cold Butter was Chrissy Drake. Why can't the goddamned Nimbusters say on their own reservation?

  19. Cindy seems real because she has a myspace page. PING CINDY: I would take some of my personal info off the net, especially if you are going to post here. There are some real mean spirited people here. They are going to hate you for your interracial relationships.

  20. Wow. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that a girl named Cindy Adams has a myspace page.

  21. I believe that in most instances of reported rape a procedure can be done at the hospital or the morning after pill can be given to prevent any kind of fertilization. Of course, many rapes are either not reported or reported later.

    Hooch - as I understand it - Tiller was brought into court on more than one occasion. I agree that this should have been handled through the courts. Apparently it wasn't.

    How do any of you feel about late-term abortions when the child is horrendously deformed and his/her quality of life would be severely impaired? I'm talking about a child who would remain in a permanent vegitative state?

  22. I'm with you on aborting a badly deformed or vegitative child. I'm not for just wiping it off the list of medical procedures. Nature is a cruel thing at times, we just don't need to add to it if we can help it.

    Keep in mind that my stance isn't necessarily a religious one.

  23. Yes, abortion should be legal

    No, late term abortions should not

    No, the Army of God is free speech. Labeling groups as terrorists leads eventually to everyone you disagree with being labeled as one.



  24. Are these not the acts of terrorists?

    In the U.S., violence directed toward abortion providers has killed at least nine people, including five doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic escort.

    March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992.

    Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Dr. Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.

    July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside of another facility in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings, received a death sentence, and was executed September 3, 2003.

    December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi, who prior to his arrest was distributing pamphlets from Human Life International,[6] was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.

    January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed.

    Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.

    October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Dr. Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001.
    May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed as he served as an usher at his church in Wichita, Kansas.

    Another doctor, George Patterson, was shot and killed in Mobile, Alabama on August 21, 1993, but it is uncertain whether his death was the direct result of his profession or rather a robbery.

  25. Attempted murder, assault, and threats

    According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.[9] The attempted murders were:

    August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence (20 years were later added for arson and acid attacks on clinics).

    July 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.

    December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the same-day shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.

    October 28, 1997: Dr. David Gandell of Rochester, New York was injured by flying glass when a shot was fired through the window of his home.

    January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.

    Anthrax threats
    The first letters claiming to contain anthrax were mailed to U.S. clinics in October 1998, a few days after the Slepian shooting, and since then, there have been a total of 655 such bioterror threats made against abortion providers. None of the "anthrax" in these cases was real.

    November 2001: After the genuine 2001 anthrax attacks, Clayton Waagner mailed hoax letters containing a white powder to 554 clinics. Waagner was convicted of 51 charges relating to the anthrax scare on December 3, 2003.

  26. Arson, bombing, and property crime

    According to NAF, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, property crimes committed against abortion providers have included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid ("stink bombs").

    The first clinic arson occurred in Oregon in March 1976 and the first bombing occurred in February 1978 in Ohio. More recent incidents have included:

    December 25, 1984: An abortion clinic and two physicians' offices in Pensacola, Florida were bombed in the early morning of Christmas Day by a quartet of young people (Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins) who later called the bombings "a gift to Jesus on his birthday."

    October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.

    May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire on resulted in damage estimated at US$20,000. The case remains unsolved.

    September 30, 2000: A Catholic priest drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being shot at by a security guard.

    June 11, 2001: An unsolved bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington destroyed a wall, resulting in US$6000 in damages.

    July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida was the target of an arson. The case remains open.[18]
    December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year. Hughes claimed the bomb was a “memorial lamp” for an abortion she had had there.

    September 13, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and then started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions, however Edgerton is not an abortion clinc.

    April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building. Paul Ross Evans (who had a criminal record for armed robbery and theft) was found guilty of the crime.

    May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

    December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque. Altman’s girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an abortion at the clinic.

    January 22, 2009 Matthew L. Derosia, 32, who was reported to have had a history of mental illness rammed a SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.

  27. Why are people one terrorists when they attack the left/liberal/anti-white institutions of society? What do you call someone who pulls a baby half out of it's mother and kills it? I'd love to have a list of the nameless little souls who have met their end that way. It sounds silly but I'd give all of them names and hang up the list somewhere in my famous basement.

    Suppose someone set a bomb (a real one) in my car while I was at work driving a forklift or collecting my welfare check. Maybe I would notice it before I got into the car. Maybe the bomb would go off and maybe I'd survive. Maybe I'd smell the fuse and take cover, if it was that kind of bomb. Anyhow, if it took me out, I would have lived 35 years of my life. I would have loved hard, fought hard, made a lot of friends, accomplished a lot of things, wrote lots about how I feel and had a lot of people touch my life. Most of all, I would have left a baby, part of myself, here on earth. WHO THE FUCK IS ANYONE TO DENY SOMEONE OF THAT BEFORE DAY ONE? So if terrorist (such a scary word) took my life, save your tears for those who never had it to start with.

  28. Chris...I'm pretty much with you on the abortion issue. All that I am asking is - are the acts listed those acts that could be considered acts of terrorism regardless of who they are directed at?

    Ya know, I am not a pro-choice person because I don't believe the whole, "I have the right to choose what I do with my body" stuff - not when your body holds the life of another which must be considered. But, I am always amazed at how quickly the pro-life people can justify a death sentence on others.

  29. Nikki, I pretty much am on board with Mr. Schwartz about abortion. It should be legal but I think there should be restrictions (can't see late terms at all unless there is a medical reason such as danger to the mother) and counseling before hand. I could never work in a abortion clinic.

    Cindy (I am going to assume you are not Cold Butter), "Shaggy" was right, it is not good to reveal too much of your personal information. Some of the people here take this stuff very personal. If that is your correct name and I assume it is because I used the people finder and found a girl your age in the Dallas area.

    "Hooch" isn't really mental. He just holds his beliefs very strongly. He is a jealot and a bit of an asshole at times. To him there is no grey area. All liberals or anyone who doesn't believe as he does is wrong or stupid (usually both). You will see his type on both sides of the isle. They think nothing of imposing their views upon the rest of us. It is (to them) after all for our own good :) To this type nothing Obama or "the liberals" good will ever be "right." Whatever happened to moderate Republicans?

    Those OSU Cowboys are going to take down your Longhorns, Nikki (that way my Red Raiders can get the Big 12 Crown!) Go Cowboyz Go!

  30. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Sure, they are acts of terror if you consider they were committed to send a message to others. Would you consider the French Resistance in WW2 to be terrorists? They blew people up, assasinated officials, bombed coffee shops and nothing they did was limited to the foriegn army (especially since they were mostly out of towners themselves---see modern day Iraq).

    I'm not a terrorist. I've been called one plenty of times but history shows, I've never committed one act of terror or imtimidation. I've put myself in the shoes of "terrorist" many times though. I'm just an adventuerer in a world where any un-casterated white man is considered a threat. However, ask yourself, what would cause you to act? When would you finally say, "my back's against the wall"? What would you do then? After you were cornered, how far would you go to break out?

    Religion is a funny thing. All people have religion just like all people have racism. You can say there's no God or the only God is the Jewish one (not much better than atheism IMO) or whatever. But we all have something spiritual that guides us, that is, unless some faiths are correct in saying some of us have no soul.

    Never have I met an anti-abortion activist who felt like if he or she wasn't doing what they did, more people would die. They felt like they were protesting legal murder and not doing so made them almost as evil. They feel backed into a corner.

    I don't. I never have. I've always seen a way out of the problems we have in front of us. If I didn't, so help me true white Gods, I would be what you'd call a terrorist. No talk, no stock piling guns waiting to get my balls up, no scary websites or long ultimatiums. I'd do it and I'd do it right so it never had to be done again, not in my soon-to-be-over-with lifetime. This isn't a threat or anything of the sort. It's a statement of fact about groups of like minded people. All will talk first, nobody really wants to fight. When all compromise and reasoning is over, some will run and some will fight.

    No matter their reasons, if people feel passionately enough, after their voices are silenced, all disappear into the shadows. Some run away, some walk out with their hands raised, some stay there and wait to close.

    Let's just hope a solution to the problem is found soon. Killing the helpless is not one.

  31. Ha ha ha UF you and the rest are being taken for a ride. There is no Ballet in Texas. Cindy is a fake. Clearly that idiot Cold Butter.

  32. This comment has been removed by the author.

  33. Well I last year I lived in the Fort Worth area (Keller Tx) and I can tell you that Dallas has a strong Ballet scene (never attended it myself).

    Oh BTW Cindy the last Chris Drake (the one with the rifle and more clothes on than his underwear) is most likely the real Drake. The other one is someone making fun of him. I could be wrong but I don't think the real Chris Drake wipes his butt with his socks. He just denies the Holocaust, assumes everyone is racist because he is a racist person, and hates Jews and Israel as well. Most of what he is saying is being sarcastic because people tend to get personal and say all kinds of things about him. I doubt they are true but you might ask Mr. Schwartz, I am pretty sure he knows everything.

    Better be careful about the tough talk, Drake. I have to warn you that I have never lost a shadow boxing match. I am a true Internet tough man! Don't make me kick your
    Internet ass. How would it make my argument more valid if I did kick your ass? Would it make yours more correct if you kicked mine? Bet I could beat you at 21 (basketball).

  34. """How do any of you feel about late-term abortions when the child is horrendously deformed and his/her quality of life would be severely impaired? I'm talking about a child who would remain in a permanent vegetative state?"""

    That's pretty bad Nikki. I guess I will have to go along with the abortionists on this one. Not for downs syndrome or anything like that who get to live full and happy lives.

    And there are a few that are in a complete vegetative state, visually appear to be mentally retarded but think clearly and are as intelligent or more intelligent than you and I. Steven Hawking for example. But vegetative mixed with severe mental retardation I think would be better off hopefully getting another start at a better life if God or our supreme being gives them the opportunity to do so.

    """I am always amazed at how quickly the pro-life people can justify a death sentence on others."""

    It doesn't amaze me that someone would wish life for an innocent human being..... but death on a human who with malice kidnapped an innocent child, anally raped them and then cut them up in pieces and threw them in a dumpster to be disposed of.

    I am only saying that in this graphic manor to illustrate the point. There is some evil in people that is sooo deep and unforgivable that I don't feel even the slightest remorse from them dieing at the hand of the people. BUT, I don't think one person should be the judge of life or death. It should be decided as a group.

    And maybe we can start sentencing people in a more just way that fits the crime. Maybe that child molester/murder can be sent to the nigger side of prison to be gang raped repeatedly, then to Mike Tyson so he can eat their asshole and fuck them up the ass until they love him.


    Then we will cut em up and throw em out with the trash.

    Ted Nugent has the right idea on personal defense from people like that and how they should die.

    He's a good guy with some solid morals and values. And after watching that again, maybe we should be able to just shoot a criminal dead with no judge and jury. I think I was wrong!!!...

  35. """All liberals or anyone who doesn't believe as he does is wrong or stupid (usually both)..... They think nothing of imposing their views upon the rest of us."""

    Well said, As Nugent would say, you are a whole "gaggle" of numb nuts. LOL.

    """It is (to them) after all for our own good :) To this type nothing Obama or "the liberals" good will ever be "right." Whatever happened to moderate Republicans?"""

    Republicans are sick of the crap. We voted our own out of office last election and the remaining republicans will be gone this election. Fortunately we have a bunch of dirty libs to vote against to counter our having to drop more republicans.

    The radical left is who you should be asking what happened to. This country is more socialist today than it was in the 50's. We are on the slippery slope towards an oligarchy style government and we must break free of it.

    """One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."""

    Very well said. We are at a point in time where civil unrest is just starting to boil over. As the government continues to act against the "Will" of the people and steps their lies and corruption up a few hundred notches, the people are on the verge of being forced to form militias or as the media likes to call it, "gorilla" groups that are fighting back for their freedom.

    We will first see groups form like the Tea Parties who wish to peacefully protest what is going on. If this doesn't seem to work these peaceful protests will get a little loud and it will piss off the government. They will have some police or military kill a couple of people and it will be on.

    There at that point will be groups of people who still insist on peaceful protest and there will be others who have come to the conclusion that the government politicians will never let go of their gravy train and will do whatever is necessary to keep it. And these people will actively attack the government in a similar manor that Obama's buddy William Ayres did.

    If the government doesn't get the point at this stage the groups will grow and the next thing you will know the Republicans and the Democrats will be just like the Shia and the Sunni's. The Democrats will be fighting pro establishment and the Conservatives will fight for our freedom from the government. And the next civil war will be on.

  36. Anonymous said...
    "Ha ha ha UF you and the rest are being taken for a ride. There is no Ballet in Texas. Cindy is a fake. Clearly that idiot Cold Butter."

    It really is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and be proven a fool.


    Cindy - these guys are right. Too much personal information on the internet can be a dangerous thing. It is always refreshing to see that there are those who don't have a care in the world, but if you are going to mix it up on this site or others like it - protect yourself. Just a bit of friendly advice.

    What I believe:

    Abortion on demand should be curtailed. For far too many, abortions have been used as birth control. Both males and females have many different options to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Additionally, there are many childless couples in this country who would provide excellent homes for unwanted babies. It is time that adults learn to be responsible in their activities.

    Abortions should be limited to cases such as:

    2)Saving the life of the mother
    3)In cases of very young girls where giving birth would be harmful.

    Late term abortions should be limited to only those cases where the child would be so impaired as to negate all quality of life - for example...children who will require continuous life-support; children who will never grow or mature beyond the birthing stage; children with maladies so severe as to relegated to a life of continuous pain with no hope of moving beyond that state.

    Millions of Downs Syndrome and mentally handicapped children grow to become happy and productive individuals. Murdering these children because they may present an inconvenience to the parents is absolutely unconscienable.

    Additionally, as it now stands, a woman can go to any abortion clinic, lay her money down and get a "solution" to her problem. Often there is no regard whatsoever given to the father of that fetus. Based upon her "right to choose" a fetus can be ripped from her womb without ever considering the wishes or the rights of the father. I think that is wrong.

    I would be interested in knowing how many children are born during an abortion procedure where something goes wrong and they are born alive - a viable human being as in the video that Hooch provided a link to.

    As to the death penalty - I don't believe in it. Not for altruistic reasons, necessarily, but because in many cases I think that's too easy. I would rather see those who commit atrocities have to live a very long life under very harsh conditions.

    Likewise, while I understand the passion that accompanies those who have strong beliefs on this issue - resorting to violence will not resolve the problem. Taking the life of George Tilled did not make Scott Roeder a hero. It simply made him another murderer.

    These battles must be fought in courts of law. The laws need to reflect what is right and just for a moral society. If the law doesn't reflect that then the battle has to be waged to change the law. Just my thoughts.

  37. Unknown...I think the battle between the Longhorns and the Cowboys will be a good one. Not sure that Tech can pull off the title, though.

  38. Nice and well thought out stance on abortion Nikki.

    You're a liberal who actually has a heart.... Now can I impregnate you? ;-)

  39. UPDATE:

    An eBay auction planned by abortion opponents to raise money for the man accused of killing Wichita abortion doctor George Tiller will not be permitted, company officials said Tuesday.

    "Based on the details we know about the anticipated listings, we believe these would violate our policy regarding offensive material," the company said in a statement to The Kansas City Star. "eBay will not permit the items in question to be posted to the eBay site, and they will be removed if they are posted."

    It its statement, eBay said, “we do not allow items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity and will not be a platform for those who promote violence toward others.”

  40. Um...Hooch...have you been smoking some of the good stuff?

  41. Nikki - your position on abortion is remarkably similar to that of the LDS Church.

    In response to one of your other questions, I don't consider James Kopp's shooting of Dr. Slepian an act of terrorism, but I do consider Eric Rudolph's bombing at Centennial Park to be a terrorist act. The differences: Mass casualties and indifference to casualties.

    James Kopp was not indifferent to casualties. He deliberately targeted one man to avoid collateral damage. Thus his act was an ordinary act of capital murder. In contrast, Rudolph had no specific target. He was indifferent to the possibility of mass casualties, because he merely wanted to make a political statement. Kopp merely wanted retribution, while Rudolph wanted actual terror.

    If we overuse the word "terrorism", it will lose its shock value and people will become desensitized to it.

  42. Never Vote 4 the GOPOctober 29, 2009 7:11 AM

    It was a terrorist act. Just as Von Brunn's actions were. Anytime you use murder to try intimidate and force a political agenda I believe it is terrorism. Dr. Tiller's killer should be proscuted to the full extent under the law.

  43. So the USA going to Iraq was an act of terrorism? Vietnam? It's fun to call people you don't agree with that word but the more it gets used the less it means.

    Terrorist = the label applied to the smaller force by the larger force.

  44. They are misusing the word anyway.

    """Terrorism: the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes."""

    So, can one of you libs honestly tell me that in the case of Scott Roeder, that he killed the licensed butcher for the purpose of indemidation or coerce?

    I didn't think so.

    It is much more likely that he killed him because he felt he deserved to be dead for killing fully formed babies.

    Murderer yes, terrorist no.

    """Nikki said...Um...Hooch...have you been smoking some of the good stuff?"""

    No wacky tobacci for me sweet cheeks. I gave up all my vices years ago..... well.... with exception of the liquor......... and the women.

  45. Well then Hooch, I'm glad to hear that you aren't a Puritan. ;)

    Now, I'm not so sure about this "terroist" thing. I think the anonymous who broke it down along the lines of Rudolph and the bombing vs Klopp's shooting of Slepian was pretty well thought out. However, I don't think we can say that the sole purpose of either the Klopp shooting or the Roeder shooting was to kill the doctor.

    These people are trying to send a message (intimidate) to abortion providers whether through bombs, arson, or murder.

    Chris...when we pulled our little "shock and awe" in Iraq - what made us any different than the terrorists who blew up our buildings?

  46. Is that a trick question? Seriously, absolutely nothing except the "terrorists" had to plan more and much more to lose than ordinance. If that's what really went down. I have my doubts but what is Chris Drake going to do about it if it was all some big conspiracy?

    The thing is about terrorism, you can break it down to almost any level. For example, we've all seen a lot of anti-racist activist intimidate the families of black on white crime victims.

    Another example is one I started to use the other day. I was watching a program once on the History Channel. It was talking about some child-freedom-fighter-hero-Jew. Naturally, I looked at it without the glasses thrust into my hand by God's Chosen. This kid, a very typical looking Jew, would place bombs in public places where he knew German's to hang out (I want to say this was in Paris). Bombs would blow up killing everybody in sight. He'd then kill Germans he turned their backs on him in the street. Now wheather we are pro-Jewish or pro-freedom, we all know to take Jewish stories with a grain of salt. However, I thought to myself, what would this story play out like if he wasn't a Jew and he wasn't killing Germans and Frenchmen? A child sets off bombs under the direction of religious leaders. He sneaks up on people and shoots them in the back. That's a terrorist and anyone who would send a child out to do that kind of work is a worse kind of terrorist.

    So why must we just apply the label to political stances we don't like and their violent threats or actions?

  47. I assure you that Ballet is alive and well here in Dallas. I've moved here from back east and I've been able to live a dream in teaching and dancing. I've yet to land a lead role but I love it.

    Well Unknown F***tard it is really hard to take serious someone who's picture is a penis. I do see what you are saying about Mr. Hooch though. He is borish/racist and it is hard to understand anyone who sees the world as he does, is he like 100 years old or something? Abortion is legal therefore not by law murder. The murder of Dr. Tillman was by law murder. I can not see any difference between what he did and those in the middle east or Palestine who blow themselves up with a bomb. I guess you and Mr. Dake, Hooch don't think so because you agree with the aims of Mr. Tillman. If you want to change things here in the United State then you can do so with your vote. Attempting to force your opinions on others by violence and murder, HOW COULD THAT NOT BE TERRORISM?

    Me personally, I can't ever imagine ever having an abortion. But my roomate is a nurse that works in an abortion clinic. She is a good woman who believes she is doing good. Maybe you don't believe in what she is doing but doesn't break the law in any way and there are not late term abortions done at her clinic. See is helping women many whom are desperate and have no where else to turn. I guess she is "liberal" Mr. Hooch, though she is not really political in any way, she does believe in women's rights.

    Just my two cents worth and god help the woman who are desperate enough to have to have an abortion. I stand by my original statement Krusty old men who haven't walked a mile in their shoes should mind their own damn buisness and stop telling a woman what to do with her body.

  48. Walk a mile in anybody's shoes then. What about a crazy guy who shoots up a daycare because he thinks the devil is after him or whatever? Walk a mile in the shoes of someone who robs a bank. He sees so many undeserving people with money and feels it's unfair that he has to live in poverty. Walk a mile in the shoes a someone who plants an IED because all he knows about America is what our soldiers look like and what happens when our cruise missles hit. Killing someone over a mistake YOU made. Hmm...keep your damn shoes on.

  49. Cindy - you refer to women who are "desperate and have nowhere else to turn." I've been pretty desperate in my life. Could you give me a scenario of a woman in that position?

  50. """Cindy Adams said...
    I do see what you are saying about Mr. Hooch though. He is borish/racist and it is hard to understand anyone who sees the world as he does, is he like 100 years old or something?"""

    Ahhh....Oh my God... Like... What are you... 10 or something. LOL.
    Only someone 100 would have the "Krusty Old" belief that killing a baby isn't cool. It's the sign of the times and all us young chicks are in to that kind of thing.

    BTW, where did you get the "racist" part from. Post exactly where I said that Whites should "rule" minorities. I already explained the difference between a racist and a bigot in a couple of threads back. You must learn the language you speak oily young one.

    """If you want to change things here in the United State then you can do so with your vote. """

    Thanks for teaching us that ding dong.

    """Maybe you don't believe in what she is doing but doesn't break the law in any way and there are not late term abortions done at her clinic."""

    Now will you teach us about killing a baby before it becomes "late term". Why don't you teach us about how it can feel pain. And how it is a simple minded little child that even knows to push the vacuum suction tube away from it.

    The point at which an abortion becomes late-term is related to the "viability" (ability to survive outside the uterus) of the fetus. Almost all pregnancies are viable after the 27th week, and no pregnancies are viable before the 21st week. Everything in between is a “grey area”.

    So why don't you share with us exactly what point the baby is not a baby but more like killing a newborn puppy or something like that. I guess you are saying when it has a lower intelligence level than it is acceptable.

    """See is helping women many whom are desperate and have no where else to turn. """

    I am also curious of an example of what they are desperate for and why they were unable to deliver the child and give it to be adopted.

    """I guess she is "liberal" Mr. Hooch, though she is not really political in any way, she does believe in women's rights."""

    So where are you getting that she is "liberal" from ding-a-ling? "Conservatives" also believe in women's rights! And not all "Conservatives" are pro life. So what are you talking about?

    """I stand by my original statement Krusty old men who haven't walked a mile in their shoes should mind their own damn buisness and stop telling a woman what to do with her body."""

    It isn't her body Ohhh Spacey one. It is another body that she has decided to kill.

  51. Even the clueless are starting to see that Hoochie is both silly and racist. Self has known it for a long time. Hoochie can lie to himself but he is a racist asshole ass sure as water is wet and the pope shits in the vatican can. No MAYBESO about this one. CERTAINSO, Hoochie is a racist asshole.

    Hey Hoochie tell us that lie (again) about how Ronnie Raygun didn't increase the size of the federal government.

  52. Why don't you quote me when I supposedly said that. Every single president in history has increased the size of government. And it will continue to be the case until a libertarian is elected.

    Shitpants is a very confused individual. You seem to have some difficulty remembering what people say. What are you like, a crusty 100 year old? :-)

  53. Where are the jobs Mr. President?

  54. 50 million innocent children (mostly non-white children btw) have been killed since Roe v. Wade.

    Who knows what this nation would have been like if they had been allowed to live a full life. I can't help but think that maybe a few of those lives that was extinguished may have lived to find a cure for cancer or to find some way to feed the hungry around the world. Who knows who would have been left around to make living in this nation a better place to live. Perhaps we wouldn't have our own government saying we have to have illegals here to do work we allegedly "don't want to do," if these 50 million were allowed to live.

    It's legal, but in my humble opinion our nation is poorer for it.

  55. Agreed, and I hate to bring up economics at a time like this but 50 million more Americans would have dramatically helped out the system.

    One of the major problems not talked about in the United States is our lack of having children. Even Japans prime minister, Yukio Hatoyama said that this particular issue is the most important issue with both Japan and the United States.

    We simply don't have enough children to support the government socialized programs like Medicaid, Social Security, etc. Especially during the baby boom years, and within 10-15 years the first of them will start rolling into nursing homes.


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