Friday, March 31, 2006

New Ruling in OKC Bombing

Eventually...somewhere down the line...someone is going to get to the truth behind all of this - and this is a start.


Thursday, March 30, 2006


Federal judge rules: McVeigh had help
Bolsters claims government had informant inside conspiracy to attack federal building

Posted: March 30, 2006
4:41 a.m. Eastern

By J.D .Cash, Roger Charles

© 2006 McCurtain Daily Gazette

Damage to Alfred P. Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City, April 19, 1995

A U.S. District Court judge in Salt Lake City, Utah, has issued a stunning decision that appears to bolster claims that executed bomber Timothy McVeigh was supported by various militia groups, and that the government had an informant inside the bombing conspiracy.

The case in Utah grew out of a dispute between civil attorney Jesse Trentadue and the Oklahoma City FBI over documents requested under the Freedom of Information Act.

For over a decade, Trentadue has been searching for documents that might shed light on the death of his brother at the Federal Transfer Center in Oklahoma City, in August of 1995.

The federal government maintains that Kenneth Trentadue killed himself in a suicide-proof cell at the Oklahoma City federal installation, where he was being held on a purported parole violation for failing to report to his parole officer.

In the course of this investigation, Trentadue received "tips" from various sources, including one allegedly from a source close to McVeigh, before McVeigh's execution.

That source said that McVeigh told him that Kenneth Trentadue was beaten, tortured and murdered because the FBI mistakenly believed he was linked to a group of bank bandits that considerable evidence now suggests, assisted McVeigh in the plot to bomb the Oklahoma federal building.

The FOIA suit began after heavily redacted documents obtained by this newspaper, from an FBI whistleblower, confirmed McVeigh's links to Elohim City and informants working for the Southern Poverty Law Center who were present at the paramilitary compound on April 17, 1995, when McVeigh called the camp looking for German-national Andreas Strassmeir and additional help in the bombing.

While heavily redacted, that Jan. 4, 1996, teletype from then-FBI director Louis Freeh to a select group of FBI offices contained information appearing to link Strassmeir to McVeigh and the FBI's knowledge that Strassmeir was planning to flee the country soon.

Inexplicably, the FBI did not go to the residence where the memo said Strassmeir was living in Black Mountain, N.C., and detain the individual for questioning about the bombing. Instead, Strassmeir – with the help on his Black Mountain, N.C. attorney, Kirk Lyons, and former CIA pilot Dave Holloway – was able to slip across the Mexican border a few days after the teletype was issued.

Since the discovery of this heavily redacted document linking the SPLC, Elohim City and Strassmeir to McVeigh and the bombing conspiracy, the FBI has since produced 17 additional documents for Trentadue. However, key sections of those documents were also heavily redacted.

Seeking to have the FBI provide unredacted copies of these additional documents, Trentadue has claimed the FBI has a duty to make a full disclosure of who their informants and suspects in the bombing were, because the national interest in the Oklahoma City bombing, far outweighs any privacy interests those informants and suspects may have had.

In order to determine the validity of the claims made by both sides, the FBI was ordered in November to turn over unredacted copies of all the documents at issue for the judge to examine "in chambers."

Considering Trentadue's allegations about his brother's mysterious and violent death, the judge early in his opinion observed: "While officials ruled the death a suicide, the Plaintiff unearthed significant evidence of foul play. Plaintiff's theory is that his brother apparently looked very similar to Richard Lee Guthrie, who allegedly was one of Timothy McVeigh's accomplices in the Oklahoma City bombing and a member of the Mid-West Bank Robbery Gang. Plaintiff believes that his brother was killed during an overly aggressive interrogation by federal agents – who believed Kenneth Trentadue was Richard Lee Guthrie.

Later in his summary of the facts, Judge Dale Kimball also noted that Guthrie was later apprehended by authorities and he, too, is said to have committed suicide his jail cell while in federal custody.

After reviewing the unredacted documents provided by the FBI, Kimball singled out a teletype issued by the FBI, only six days after the blast.

"Plaintiff points out the fact that this document indicates there was an undercover operative in with Timothy McVeigh and members of the various militia groups who aided and supported McVeigh, but plaintiff wonders why, given the subject matter, there are no earlier records produced by the FBI."

Contacted after the ruling was issued, Trentadue told this newspaper that he is heartened by the language the judged used here, which clearly indicates the unredacted documents convinced the court that McVeigh had accomplices that have not been charged and the government had at least one informant within the cabal.

"The judge concurs with my allegations that McVeigh was supported by this bank robbery group at Elohim City and that the government was inside that group with at least one informant."

The court, though, sided with the FBI in refusing to allow the release of the names of the other suspects or their informants that provided them with information about the conspiracy.

In his 22-page ruling, Kimball said, "(FOIA) Exemption 7D protects records of information compiled for law enforcement purposes which could reasonably be expected to disclose the identity of a confidential source or information furnished by a confidential source."

Regarding the FBI's reluctance to provide the information sought by Trentadue, Kimball wrote, "It is troubling that so many of the documents produced by the FBI refer to FD-302s (investigation leads) that were or should have been prepared, and the disclosed documents also refer to other attachments that at one time appear to have accompanied the document, yet these documents have not been produced. While the FBI's failure to discover documents is not necessarily and indication of bad faith, it is puzzling that so many documents could be referenced but not produced."

Focusing on Morris Dees and the organization he co-founded, the SPLC, the judge ordered the FBI to conduct additional record searches for documents containing the names of Morris Dees, the SPLC and several radical members of the far-right that frequented Elohim City and that have been linked in the past to McVeigh.

Encouraging the FBI to fully cooperate with attorney Trentadue in his dogged search for the truth around his brother's murder, Kimball warned the agency: "It appears likely, however, that the FBI has not seen the last FOIA request from Plaintiff."

One senior, retired FBI agent who read only the paragraph quoted above from the judge's ruling said that the judge's finding that there was an informant and a broader conspiracy than heretofore admitted by the government makes even more inexplicable the FBI headquarters' shutting down all investigations into the Elohim City connection to OKBOMB.

He further stated that it would be "a huge scandal" if it is ever proven that Strassmeir's name is among those currently withheld as having been guaranteed confidentiality as an informant.


  1. This will be interesting to follow. If the SPLC did have an informant and that informant did have knowledge of something about OKC but didn't notify the government, racists and conspiracy theorist are going to have a field day with this.

  2. Yup, this only proves that the Clinton Administration used the SPLC and other so-called "anti-racist" groups to get the OKC bombing done, to villify and destroy the political right in America.


    More Mud On Morris Dees Thrown, LOL

    Victim of Smear Campaign Gets Even With Morris Dees

    By James P. Tucker Jr.

    Morris Dees, who makes a lucrative career out of smearing many decent U.S. organizations, was visibly shaken at what he expected to be a “sweetheart” event when a pro-Southern group on his hit list challenged him on his lurid past, The Times Examiner of Greenville, S.C., reports.

    Dees spoke at the University of South Carolina’s “Carolina Productions Lecture Series,” a student-run campus organization, on Feb. 27. An estimated 300 people, including more than 30 law enforcement personnel, attended. Some professors ordered students to attend; some gave extra credit for attending. Considering how embarrassing it proved for Dees, his faculty cheerleaders probably regret such pressure.

    Dees labeled the League of the South as “racist” and “terrorist” in publications put out by his Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) and public statements.

    But the League is “racially neutral with members of different races,” said Lexington attorney Larry Salley, a member of the board.

    H.K. Edgetton of Black Mountain, a black man noted for supporting southern heritage, called Dees a “poverty pimp” during the question-and-answer period.

    But it was Salley who had the most fun with Dees.

    “Salley prepared and passed out a well-documented brochure that appeared to be the official program, featuring Dees’s photograph and the statement ‘With Justice for All’ on the cover,” The Times Examiner reported.

    Inside, after the anticipated Dees-friendly words, the brochure transitioned into the harsh facts with footnotes citing the source of the material. Dees disciples, in blissful ignorance, helped hand out the brochures.

    One of the 14 documented statements is from Harper’s magazine:

    “The cover story of Harper’s magazine’s November 2000 issue exposed the SPLC’s alarmist fund-raising tactics with which it raises large sums that are not used to help those it purports to serve. The Southern Center for Human Rights’ Stephen Bright charged that [Dees] is a fraud who has milked a lot of very wonderful, well-intentioned people. If it’s got headlines, Morris is there.”

    Quoting from the Alabama Court of Civil Appeals, CIV2114 (1979), the brochure says:

    “Of all the damning indictments against Morris Dees, the worst comes from his closest connection. He was sued by his ex-wife, Maureene Bass Dees, who alleged that he had committed incest with his stepdaughter and future daughter-in-law.”

    “When Dees saw the program he was visibly shaken,” the paper quotes Salley. “I stood up and asked him why 55 percent of the SPLC’s income went into his pocket, and he tried to shout me down. Then other members of our group tried to ask him similar questions, and they shut down the question-and-answer period.”

    Carolina Productions “is taxpayer funded and in the past they have had groups such as transvestite exotic dancers,” Salley said.

    The following night Dees spoke at Western Carolina University where about 200 attendees received the same brochure.

    Dees refused to comment on the well-deserved roasting he took.

  4. This is pretty much a load of crap. I was at the Federal Transfer Center in Oklahoma City at the time of Trentadue's death (worked as a volunteer trying to get on as a social worker with the BOP). More than likely he was beaten to death by guards but it had nothing to do with the Oklahoma City bombing. He was in a solitary cell in Special Housing Unit (SPU). No one before or after his death was able to commit suicide in such as cell (The cells were made to be "suicide proof").

    The inmates counselor a guy named Roberts sent in three trusties following Trentadue's death to clean the cell (in the middle of the night) and to cover up evidence of the beating. Trentadue was beaten to death because he spit on guards and was abusive toward same. He was always trying to volunteer information of lessen his sentence but the FBI had long since determine that Trentadue had no useful information to give.

  5. BJ - I don't put much stock into the Trentadue claims, other than there was a cover-up surrounding his death. But...the connection to Elohim City and the Aryan Republican Army that McVeigh had is something that has never been dealt with.

    Additionally, the role that Strassmeir and Dennis Mahon played in all of this has, to this point, been pretty much ignored.

    There are enough people still plugging away at this mess that maybe, just maybe, we will get some answers.

  6. I'll tell you what would be sweet karma, Steve. It would be you in prison with some of the "good ole fathers" of some of the children that you'd had your way with. That would be sweet karma, pedo.

  7. STF yourself, Jew. Jews are even worse than spics in my book. It would be great if this country would adopt Hilters solution (gas chambers) to you and all your kind, Steve.

  8. Minuteman,

    You idiots need to decide something. Half of you nazi's deny the holocaust, half of you brag about it.

    Which is it?

    Steve Holsten,

    You continue to show your mental retardation.

  9. "You idiots need to decide something. Half of you nazi's deny the holocaust, half of you brag about it.

    Which is it?"--Harry Schwartz

    Good point, Harry. Essentially they KNOW that "Holocaust Revisionism" is nothing but bollocks, but of course they're going to continue to "poison the well", so to speak, so as to try and throw as much doubt and confusion upon history as they can (particularly as it recedes into past decades).

    Holocaust Denial is absurd; the Holocaust is one of the most well-documented events in the Twentieth Century. Therefore, those that fancy themselves modern disciples of Hitlerism (Blevins, Dariush, White, et al.)are simply falling back on his tactic of the BIG LIE: That is, a lie told often enough, and vehemenently enough, will eventually begin to erode the foundations of the truth.

    From their perspective, all they have to do is cast DOUBT, and they know they will begin to erode the foundations of historical truth in the minds of many.

    This is why the U.S. NEEDS anti-Nazi, anti-Holocaust Denial laws.

    The true aim of "Holocaust Revisionism" is to make National Socialism a credible political alternative again.

  10. Isn't it funny how the nazi's want their free speech protected by waving the nazi flag, yet want to destroy the free speech of millions by denying them the right to fly the mexican flag?

    I do think that nazism should be treated the same as Al Qaeda in the United States. Both groups want to overthrow the US government and kill all who disagree with them and their religion.

  11. This is why the U.S. NEEDS anti-Nazi, anti-Holocaust Denial laws.---EB

    I am glad our constitution means nothing to you. I am also glad that you’re willing to spread democracy and freedom abroad and, in conjunction, remove it at home.

    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.---Benjamin Franklin

    The true aim of "Holocaust Revisionism" is to make National Socialism a credible political alternative again.---EB

    Even if 6 million Jews were exterminated in the most cruel and degrading ways possible, that still does not tarnish National Socialism as a viable political option.

  12. I do think that nazism should be treated the same as Al Qaeda in the United States. Both groups want to overthrow the US government and kill all who disagree with them and their religion.---Harry

    That is a little naïve and narrow minded, don’t you think?

  13. The thing that always stands out to me is that the Nazi's cloak themselves in the Constitution which is the very foundation of our government - yet, if they came to power - they want that very government replaced.

    And...yes, they really do want to exercise their rights while trampling all over everyone elses.

  14. Stefan,

    But my remark is right on the money, isn't it?

  15. "Even if 6 million Jews were exterminated in the most cruel and degrading ways possible, that still does not tarnish National Socialism as a viable political option."--S.S.

    Mr. Schmidt, this is an outrageous statement. Quit trying to bait me.

  16. Stefan,

    But my remark is right on the money, isn't it?

    Denying someone the right to certain freedoms granted under one system of government just because they advocate the abolishment of such government—is, well, a slippery slope.

  17. Mr. Schmidt, this is an outrageous statement. Quit trying to bait me.-EB

    No one is trying to bait you.

    However, National Socialism and the ideology are morally independent of the actions that Hitler and the Third Reich committed; just as Communism is not morally liable for the acts Stalin committed.

    You equate National Socialism with the German National Socialist movement in the early 20th-century---which is unfair to both the German version and the broader label (i.e. National Socialism).

  18. "No one is trying to bait you.

    However, National Socialism and the ideology are morally independent of the actions that Hitler and the Third Reich committed; just as Communism is not morally liable for the acts Stalin committed." --S.S.

    On the contrary, I hate Communism as much as Nazism. I've told you before, I think of them as two-of-a-kind, and can tolerate neither.

    So now what?

  19. On the contrary, I hate Communism as much as Nazism. I've told you before, I think of them as two-of-a-kind, and can tolerate neither.

    So now what?

    I am not implying that you like Communism, EB.

    Just that a general ideological movement cannot be held accountable for the sins of man.

  20. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  21. Only a damned fool thinks the Holocaust was a "hoax"... unless said damned fool believes that *only* gays, gypsies, and everyone BUT the Jews, were fed into the gas chambers...

    But, hey, why deny something BAD happening to millions of Jews? Isn't that what the stump-jumpin' inbred WNer's *want* to happen? Lots of dead Jews? It's a masturbatory fantasy for the "kill nigras an' Joos" crowd!

  22. Harry F. Schwartz: "I do think that nazism should be treated the same as Al Qaeda in the United States. Both groups want to overthrow the US government..."

    Food for thought for ostensible revolutionaries such as anarchists and communists who willingly allow themselves to be led around by SPLC/ADL types.

  23. Hmm.

    Well, here are a few questions I always wanted to ask Bill White (indeed, if that is who you really are, Dariush).

    1.) What are those bumps on your forehead, really? Are they infectious? Lord, it fair puts a man off his dinner just to get a look at them.

    2.) Are you really afflicted with gynocomastia? It's a bit hard to tell through the brownshirt. If so, do you feel it has ever caused you difficulty in inter-personal "man/woman" relationships?

    3.) Are you now, or have you ever been, a diabetic?

    4.) From Communism to Anarchism to Nazism, in two shakes of a militants tail. Tell us: Are you just having us all on?

    5.) Have you engaged in any lewd, unsavory, or otherwise morally-questionable acts with Paul Lukas Kuhn?

    6.) Do you frequently get the hives? If so, do you find that your worst outbreaks occur after standing in close proximity to Kenneth Michael "Doc" Schneider?

    7.) Are you a bastard? Wait, we already know the answer to that one.
    Sorry. Wrong file.

    8.) Have you told a lie in the last twenty-four hours? If so, were you wracked by pangs of guilt.
    If so, are you not feeling yourself, lately?

    7.) It is a well-recorded fact that you are disciple of the Norse deity Thor. Taking this into consideration, we were also wondering about your opinions concerning: elves, leprechauns, gnomes, pixies, dwarves, dragons, Minotaur, Cerberus, halflings, snipes, Skunk Ape, Mothman, Zeta Reticulans, the Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot, grey aliens, unicorns, evil wizards, munchkins, smelly flying monkeys, banshee, ghosts, sylphs, brownies, ents, demons, angels, and last, but certainly not least, the Magical Kingdom of OZ?
    (You may attach additional pages as are required.)

    Well, Bill Alexandariush White, I think that sums it up quite nicely. If I think of something else, will keep you posted.


    Your humble servant

    PS: In case you have been suffering under an oppressive attack from a Land Elf, I have been informed by an Asatru minister (non-racialist) of my aquaintance, that the best way to deal with said attack is the employment of a bowl of milk on your personal altar. Leave for three days, then pour on the ground.

    He says it works quite nicely, but I can't vouchsafe for it...

  24. William Alexander,

    You still are hooked that nearly everyone is a communist aren't you?

    Kind of like those mentally ill people who claim that everyone is spying for the CIA.

    Or perhaps in your case that everyone is working for the SPLC/ADL.

    Check your closet before going to bed, a commie might be hiding out there.

  25. LOL!

    Stop it, you guys are killing me.

    I'm not anti-communist, btw, Harry.

  26. Some father Steve HOlsten turns out to be. His son just got arrested in a pedophile sting in Kennett.

    Christopher L Holsten

    And yes, it's Steve's son who lives at the same address as Steve. The same Steve who didn't mind his 13 year old daughter dating a 22 year old man.

  27. maybe your 23 year old son got the idea he could have sex with a 13 year old from you, after all you let your 13 year old daughter date a 24 year old man

  28. Stop with the lies Steve. Any 23 year old will know it's against the law to have sex with a minor. Your son is not a teenager, he's 23.

    Your son went into that chat room on his own free will looking for sex with a minor, then went to visit that minor's house only to be an FBI sting.

    You were the one looking for underaged porn on usenet, you were the one spamming underaged porn on yahoo groups, and you are the one who said you would have sex with a 14 year old if she threw herself at you and you said you think age of consent laws should be reduced.

    Like father, like son eh Steevo?

    Pedophiles at heart. The only thing that stops you from molesting is being locked up in prison.

  29. Here is the charges Steve's son is charged with.

    Enticement Of Child (Actor 21 Yrs Of Age Or Older And Child Less Than 15 Yrs Of Age) { Felony C RSMo: 566.151 }

    Statutory Rape - 2nd Degree { Felony C RSMo: 566.034 }

    So he's over 21 trying to entice kids under the age of 15.

    Nice Steve.

  30. Uh...there is nothing in this world that I detest more than someone who preys on or mistreats children. Sexual predators are, without a doubt, the worst kind of anomaly found in this world.

    Steve - I cannot believe, even knowing that this is your son, that you can come in here and try to justify or explain what this man did. This is not a high-school teenager. This is not a child who needs to be educated. This is a 23 year old man and you cannot tell me that he didn't know this was against the law.


    Plea bargain down to a misdemeanor???? Are you completely out of your mind? The child he thought he was enticing was UNDER 15! What 23 year old man wants to have sex with a baby???? Only a depraved and despicable human being that needs to have his dick cut off would do something like that!

    But then...when daddy allows his 13 year old daughter to go out with a 22 year-old man, I guess the son was raised by example. What a distasteful and horrid example that is.

    And this is a friend of Hal Turner? Uh...huh. That speaks volumes about the little man.

  31. Nikki,

    Steve is just a TYPICAL example of the morals of white racists.

    I wonder how many REAL victims there were before the FBI sting happened.


    BTW: I was checking for all the torandoes that happened in Steevo's neck of the woods and then typed in Holsten in the search box and guess what was the first hit?

    Then to make sure, I went to Missouri, typed in the name, and the address was Steevo's alright.

    And yes, Steevo is on record that the age of consent should be lowered to 14 (or lower) so he damn well knew it was illegal.

  32. This man should have been locked up for child negligence and endangerment when he allowed his child of 13 to date a 22-year-old. Steveo - you are a pathetic individual who has no business having children - and I find you absolutely despicable.

    There are several of these racists who believe that once a girl starts a menstrual cycle they are old enough to marry and breed. What kind of sickness is this?

  33. Additionally - if, at 23, your son didn't know better - he must be an idiot - and what does that say about you?

    The man was trolling the internet looking for children to have sex with - who did he learn that from?

  34. Hate to break the subject, but, GODDAMN is Bill White one stupid SOB. Just found this posted at Overthrow today:

    Things Comrades Should Not Say To The Media
    To Help The National Socialist Movement Continue Its March Forwards

    Bill White

    Commentary -- Greeting Comrades:
    I am directing this to all of our unit leaders, but also to certain unit leaders in particular who are among the worst offenders in certain regards.

    I often see statements made to the media that make me cringe. Some of these statements are very common, and while sometimes there is some truth to them, more often than not there is not -- and we make ourselves sound bad by making them.

    Please read the following list of statements and situations and practice correct responses to them:

    1) "We are rallying because we want media attention"


    I can only think of one situation where it is appropriate to even acknowledge media attention -- when someone says they want to deny us attention and then holds a press conference -- in which case we can point out the obvious failure of what they are doing.


    We use Jewish media attention to attract recruits, and we do conduct some events for publicity, but we do not hold rallies because we want attention. We hold rallies because we want to make a statement. [same difference]

    Here's a helpful exercise:

    Before holding a rally, write down a one sentence reason why you are holding this rally. What is its purpose?

    For instance, we are protesting Jewish multiculturalism, or, we are protesting diversity, or, we want to support and encourage white unity.


    I am not used to typing in caps, but that needed to be said in them.

    2) "We are rallying because we want to bankrupt the city"

    NEVER SAY THIS. Not only is it not true, if it were true, it would be dishonest, and by saying this you are admitting that you are dishonest.

    This statement makes me so mad that if I had my way, unit leaders who said it would be suspended.

    If we wanted to "bankrupt" cities, we would choose juridictions that are financially shaky and we would go there month after month after month until they bankrupted.

    We rally in areas where we have growing units in order to bring attention to our growth, advocate for our issues, and present an example for white citizens which we hope they will follow by joining the NSM.

    The truth is that our rallies "cost" just about zero in extra police work. It is the extremely violent leftist counter demonstrations that necessitate all of the cost.

    If anyone asks you about the cost of the rally, the correct response is:

    "Why should we pay the cost? The police aren't here to protect the city against us. They are here to protect the city against these Jews and blacks who are threatening to riot. So I agree that the cost should be placed on the shoulders of those responsible for the policing, but send the bill to the Jewish communists and the black rioter, not us."

    3) "We are rallying because we want a violent reaction from local blacks / Hispanics / Jews"



    We demonstrate because we have something to say and because we have issues to advocate.

    The ADL says that we demonstrate because we want violence.

    We NEVER "want" violence. We "want" to solve all issues peacefully. But we are not going to be cowed because JEWISH and BLACK organizations are threatening violence. [blatantly dishonest]

    This whole thing about "we want violence" is an attempt to put the onus for black and Jewish criminality on us. Those of our comrades who buy into this belief are suckers.

    We want confrontation -- but we want a confrontation of ideas.

    Every year we suspend a lot of party comrades for engaging in violent or emotionally-unstable potentially violent behavior. [something you REALLY want to admit, Bill?]

    The National Socialist Movement opposes violence, both that directed against our members, and any illegal violence committed by our members.

    If you want violence, go out and peacefully advocate for white causes. The Jews and the non-whites will bring all of the violence you can take. It is this situation that the National Socialist Movement fights against.

    If anyone asks you about the violent counter-demonstrators,
    the correct response is:

    "We are here to peacefully demonstrate for our ideas and to peacefully confront these fundamentally evil minions of Jewish diversity. What we seek is a confrontation of ideas, not a confrontation of physical violence. However, we are prepared for this violence and if they attack us we will defend ourselves."

    4) "We are a paramilitary group", "We are a militia", "We are a gang", et cetera

    I don't see a lot of this, but these are also things that you do not say. Most importantly, they are not true. Second, they all carry legal baggage with them, and may subject you, or your comrades in another unit or state, to investigation. [He gives the honest reason with this last sentence.]

    I think our members sometimes say these things because they want to sound "cool", "hardcore", "tough" or otherwise silly. Frankly, the National Socialist Movement does not have to "sound tough". When you run around in a suit and tie or your work clothes or you have a teacup danglnig from your pinky, but are trying to be militant, then you have to "sound tough" because you look like weiners. The National Socialist Movement is tough. Our uniforms and our swastika say enough -- and they give us the freedom to make our words much softer and reasonable. [Delusional?]

    If someone ask you to describe our group, the answer is: [What a bunch of bloody puppets he wants to march around!]

    "The National Socialist Movement is a peaceful political movement advocating for positive social change."

    5) Miscellany:

    I've often heard comrades use negative words to describe themselves, echo the enemy's rhetoric in their answers, or otherwise make statements that can be cut up into negative soundbits.

    Some of this is just a question of inexperience, but some of it is just common sense.

    Some rules:

    a) Do not ever lie to the media. The media will catch you. [Here's the sole reason not to, kids!]

    This does not mean the media needs the whole truth. You can decline to mention things, and you can "spin" things, meaning, make things that one group is describing as negative sound positive. [Absolutely unbelieveable that he made this document public of his own free will!]

    If you are caught making a mistake, you admit to the mistake immediately and correct it. If you do not know the answer, it is okay to say that you don't know but you will refer the question to someone else or that you will look it up and get back to the person.

    b) Never admit to being "sneaky". No one needs to know how clever you are. Being clever is itself enough.

    When you issue bogus press releases and are caught doing it, you end up looking like flakes. Do people want to follow leaders who are too afraid to follow through on what they say they are going to do? You make yourself look like you are playing stupid games.

    Bogus press releases and bogus announcements of events should never be made under the National Socialist Movement name. Our press releases should be 100% genuine and accurate. By doing this, we build trust with reporters -- even ones that do not like us.

    Bogus press releases, if they are to be used, should be issued under the name of local anti-racist organizations or activists, and our comrades should deny any knowledge of them. [In other words: lie your asses off, I don't give a toss!]

    Preferably, they should be issued by our moles in anti-racist groups. If your unit does not have a mole in your local anti- racist organization, contact headquarters and we can usually put one in there.

    Further, the authority for issuing bogus press releases is generally with the comrades detailed for intelligence / counter-intelligence measures and not with the general unit. This ties in to contacting headquarters and establishing moles. Bogus press releases should be okayed with someone at the national level. The Commander, anyone likely to be contacted by the media, and all of our internal media (Office of Information and myself, among others) should be aware of both the bogus press release, and of the actual plan. This allows us to report accurately when others are not being accurate, and helps us develop trust with our audience.

    c) Do not describe yourselves or the movement in negative terms.

    You are not a "liar" -- you are someone who made a mistake. The NSM is not "extreme" -- it represents a silent mainstream majority. Your group is not "small" -- it is always big enough to get the job done. Your demonstration is always successful. Et cetera. [He's essentially telling them to prevaricate in the same cult-like manner as employed by Church of Scientology, and other mind-control fronts. And--he's giving the game plan away in this very document! Is he, I dunno, self-destructive? Does he enjoy sabotaging his OWN efforts?]

    This includes repeating the question in the answer. If the reporter goes

    "Are you guys a bunch of assholes (hatemongers, other insult)"

    You do not respond

    "No we are not a bunch of assholes"

    You respond

    "No, and to even ask that question justifies our cause, as it really illustrates the Jewish media bias we are fighting against"

    d) Not being negative extends to our enemies and our actions.

    An illustration from our enemies:

    In 2002, Anti-Racist Action held a disasterous protest in York, Pennsylvania. They attacked citizens and reporters that had nothing to do with our demonstration. When they finally attacked us, they were beaten left and right and had several people hospitalized. Photos of their activists being beaten were published in the local newspapers. To this day, they describe what happened as "great victory" where they "beat the Nazis off the street".

    We do not need to go that far into fantasy or outright lie. Our actions are always great victories because we plan them to be. [Self-deluded?]

    However, some points:

    If our enemy does something violent towards us, we either immediately retaliate or we keep it quiet, meaning: If someone hits you, spits on you, hurls verbal abuse at you, et cetera, you either report that you immediately retaliated in an appropriate manner, or you don't publicly report that it happened.

    Like, if someone hits you or spits on you, they give you the legal right to slug them, and you slug them. If you don't slug them, you don't mention that it happened.

    If someone insults you or attempts to intimidate you, you fight back. If you don't fight back, you don't mention that it happened.

    Most of our members are tough guys who have been in fights and don't tolerate this kind of behavior for a moment. Some of our members are not. If you are not, don't say publicly how intimidated you were or how much someone was able to disrespect you and how mad you are. The National Socialist Movement is a movement of strength, not weakness, and while we recognize our comrades' human failings, we do not advertise them.

    I hope comrades can understand these comments.

    Our public events are not useful if we allow them to be portrayed in a negative light. We don't get a lot of quotes in the newspaper or on the TV, and we have to make every quote count.

    The general public does not hold us accountable for what the Jewish media says about us, or for what our opponents say about us, but it does hold us accountable for what we say about us. [This illustrates how far-removed from reality William really is!]

    If you hold an event and the only quote you got in the paper was one bragging about the media and the TV cameras, then you have not made the event as successful as it could have been. If you are quoted in the paper bragging about how much it cost for the city to respond to "our" rally or about how much violence might occur, you have not only made the event less successful, but potentially opened us up to legal ramifications or hurt our ability to hold rallies in the future. [His only real concern is to his own safety; not that of his 'comrades"]


    We are marching forward, and every comrade tasked to speaking with the media needs to be marching with us!

    Bill White

    I ask you, folks: What kind of bleeding IDIOT of a leader makes this sort of statement public?


    Are you SURE Bill White isn't working FOR Antifa? Secretly?

  35. LOL! Great minds, and all that...I'm working on something regarding how absolutely stupid he is. I read that earlier and thought WTF?

  36. I mean, WTF?! No "Leader" in their right effing mind makes a document like this public knowledge! I could see passing it around, maybe, as an "internal memo"...but posting it on his OWN bloody website!?

    Why not just come right out and say, "Do exactly as I say, without question. Lie, and do it well. And often. And, also, did you guys in the anti-racist movement know many of our members are weaklings, violent, mentally unstable, and just downright dumb?"

    Nikki, you do not have to worry about Bill White. He's sealing his own fate with every post he makes.


  37. I mean, WTF?! No "Leader" in their right effing mind makes a document like this public knowledge! I could see passing it around, maybe, as an "internal memo"...but posting it on his OWN bloody website!?---EB

    While most of the memo was kosher IMHO--- the sections about lying were best left out.

    If anyone in that party needs a lesson in finesse it is their own PR man Bill White.

  38. However, no article on his blog punched me in the gut more than this one:

    White Majority Rule In The US And Mexico?
    What the Jew-financed communist and racialist mestizos taking to the streets in America don't understand is that if Mexico and the United States were combined into one nation, whites would still be the majority. In fact, more whites live in Mexico then in Sweden, Austria, Bulgaria, Switzerland, or several other white nations.

    US Population (295.7 million):

    White: 206.9 million
    Black: 38.1 million
    Mestizo: 31.7 million
    Asian: 12.4 million
    Indigenous: 3 million
    Mulatto: 3 million

    Mexican Population (106.2 million):

    Mestizo: 63.7 million
    Indigenous: 32 million
    White: 9.6 million
    Black: 1.1 million

    Combined US-Mexican population: (401.9 million)

    White: 216.5 million (53.8%)
    Mestizo: 95.4 million (23.7%)
    Black: 39.2 million (9.7%)
    Indigenous: 35 million (8.7%)
    Asian: 12.4 million (3.1%)
    Mulatto: 3 million (0.7%)

    Now, as a thought experiment, lets combine the populations of US, Mexico and Canada into one Northern American nation:

    Canadian Population (32.8 million):

    White: 30.1 million
    Asian: 2 million
    Indigenous: 0.7 million

    North American Population (US-Mexico-Canada 437.3 million):

    White: 246.6 million (56.4%)
    Mestizo: 95.4 million (21.8%)
    Black: 39.2 million (9.0%)
    Indigenous: 35.7 million (8.1%)
    Asian: 14.4 million (3.3%)
    Mulatto: 3 million (0.7%)

    No matter how you slice the pie, Mexicans -- mestizos and indigenous -- are a tiny minority when compared to white people.

    This is a white-majority continent.
    posted by Bill White at 2:05 PM 0 comments

    I am not sure what he considers White but the bean eating Sombrero wearing Mexcrement don’t count.
    53.8% White he says………

  39. "...bean eating Sombrero wearing Mexcrement don’t count..."--S.S.

    This comment is beneath you.

  40. Stefan,

    That 53-56% figure is right if you're talking about the North American continent as a whole.

    "I am not sure what he considers White but the bean eating Sombrero wearing Mexcrement don’t count."

    He's talking about folks like Martin Sheen(Esteban Estevez), Charlie Sheen (Carlos Estevez) and Emilio Estevez (the only one of the bunch to keep his real name throughout his Hollywood career.

    The reason that very, very, very few white Mexicans migrate here is... well, they don't need to. The constitute the ruling class of Mexico (see Vicente Fox), so barring some sort of nationwide indios/Zapatista uprising they have no reason to immigrate.

    The Mexicans who come to the States, by and large, are the poorest, least educated, most desperate strata of Mexican society -- generally unskilled manual laborers, many of whom are not even literate in Spanish.

    Mexican immigration to the U.S. functions as a safety valve in Mexican society -- those people crossing the border are precisely the ones who would be taking to the streets with machetes, torches and guns -- burning down villas and government buildings and what have you.

    This is why no Mexican leader in his right mind -- I don't care what party he represents or what his political philosophy is -- will stand for a closed border with the U.S. There'll be hell to pay, in some way, shape or form.

  41. I agree...that comment was definitely beneath you, Stefan.

    EB - you're right - he is doing himself in. But, ya have to admit, this guy is a real piece of work. And...what does this say about those who agree to follow him? Damn! They are really needy, huh?

  42. I should add that it looks like the anti-capitalist/anti-Bush wave that is sweeping across Latin America has also had a massive impact in Mexico, and it looks like Fox is going to lose the upcoming elections to a Socialist of some sort.

    If, as a result of this, the living conditions in Mexico improve slightly for the poorest segments of Mexican society, the numbers of illegals may dwindle on their own without the U.S. government having to resort to any (more) authoritarian measures.

  43. "If anyone in that party needs a lesson in finesse it is their own PR man Bill White."--S. Scmidt


    If you really must tell him personally, steph, he just posted a message to this board.


    I have yet to see an NSM member I would feel comfortable thinking of as a well-rounded, socially secure, upwardly-mobile individual. their "Youth Corps" is hardly that; just a bunch of young wannabe skins and skinbirds with plaid skirts and bad chelsea haircuts.

    Reminds me of those twelve hour punkfests we use to go to as teens. There was usually a small gaggle of Snotzis there, as well.

    Usually, they got some sort of trouble started.

    Often, they couldn't finish it.

    Several times, they were led out in handcuffs.

    You would be surprised: Even punk rock teens will cheer for the cops when a guy that has been beating people up all day is hauled out and thrown into a squad car.

    Yes. I saw this happen. During a Vandals set, no less.

    I don't guess the cops have ever read the lyrics to "Pat Brown"! LOL!

  44. EB: "If you really must tell him personally, steph, he just posted a message to this board."

    Oh my God, you're hopeless. I'm sure not even a DNA test would convince you that I'm anyone other than Bill White.

  45. Actually, that particular event (with the Vandals) didn't even entail as much skinhead violence as other shows I've been to.

    The guy that was beating people up had started the day off by throwing a kid over the table belonging to, I believe, the Quincy Punx, after he grabbed the kid by his (long) hair and whacked the shit out of him several times.

    This dude was big,and I think, probably crancking. LOL!

    Well, the paramedics carried that guy out on a stretcher, but the two bicycle cops that were "stationed" at this particular venue for the festival, DID NOTHING TO HIM.

    Later, after he had whipped around through several different sets, assaulting various people outside the pit at random (including females) during the Vandals set, the crowd got him on the floor, bumrushed him, and kicked the shit out of him. Still, no one did anything, and I had, at this point, lost track as to if there were still cops in the building.

    Well, the guy got back up--the NAZI--and finds the skinniest punk he can find, ignores everyone else that was beating him up, and starts pounding on this kid. And the kid is fighting back pretty good. By this time, the crowd has moved in massive sections all over the floor, the band has completely stopped playing, tiny brawls are breaking out, and I'm standing there (age 19) with a beer in my hand, when two officers come strolling into the theatre area from outside, and this Nazi lug is caught dead in the spotlight. Then the singer from the Vandals points offstage at the crowd, directly at him,and yells over the PA "That's him! That's the asshole that has been causing problems all day."

    I had quickly dropped my beer at the first sight of thos cops, and I never did manage to ever get busted for underage drinking. Miracle?

    Well, of course the Nazi resists arrest, and is led out, in an unusual position I take it, with his hands held behind him and a truncheon positioned directly in back of his neck.

    And the entire crowd follows these cops out--punks in black leather jackets with mohawks and anarchy patches even--with their arms raised in the air and a very loud, hearty cheer!

    I had never seen ANYTHING like it at a gig before.

    Punks cheering cops?

    Other memorable acts of Nazi nuttery at punk gigs that I personally witnessed was the heckeling of a lesbian band called Tribe 8 got from a fat, white-power geezer with a a "Fonzi" doo, that had to, at least, have been in mid-thirties if not early forties. He hung with most of the skins at the one venue in town, and this scene, in this area, is pretty non-PC.

    What he was doing at this particular gig was unknown, but it appeared him and his buddies were just crashing it to be arseholes.

    So he starts by spitting on these lesbians in the audience. Or they were spitting on him, I can't remember which it was at this point, but he ends up in a shouting match with Lynn Breedlove, the singer, and I will never forget her standing there, topless (and she was like, at least forty-something herself, at the time) and arguing with this guy in the audience who kept yelling, "Straight white males! Whoa!"

    It was a surreal moment.

    But afterward. after playing their set, Lynn comes out to the causeway were people are buying records, looks at me and my friend Abe, and says, "You wanna go outside and help me kick this Nazi's ass? He's outside threatening to beat up girls that come out."

    So all the Tribe 8 fans piled outside, and by this time Lynn had put a shirt on, and this clown is sitting out there on the window ledge, holding himself, yelling "Straight white males! whoa!" I shit you not, I am laughing as I am writing this.

    But nothing happened. No violence.

    She stands at the club entrance, yells some stuff at him, he turns his head around, yells insults at her, grabs his crotch again, yells, "Straight white males! Whoa!"

    Then after awhile with everyone milling about, he gets up leaves, she goes inside, a guy standing next to me says, "He kept grabbing for his crotch man. I don't he think he could find it." I laughed until I nearly puked, we went home, and drove past a guy that had been gunned down in the parking lot of a Hardees (Yes, he was laying in the parking lot, with blood oozing down his head and was quite dead. The ambulance was in no hurry for this bloke.)

    Several weeks later, I go back to another gig. The guy, it turns out, plays in a local band, and was "jumped" later (or so he claimed) by anti-racist punks. He also claimed he fought them all off, and got no bruises.

    I cannot vouch for the accuracy of either claim, although I know I saw his band twice, they really sucked, and were, quickly consigned to the dust-bin of bad local band history.

    Man, it is NICE to relive these memories....Ciao!

  46. This comment is beneath you.---EB

    I think you give me too much credit.

  47. Dariush,

    The very thought of annexing Mexico, as if that would make things better, is what irks me. I do not doubt that there are White Mexicans (though, I doubt the number given is accurate—more like inflated), however, the problem here is greater than a race issue--- more, like a national sovereignty issue.

    These people feel entitled, feel like it is their right to come across illegally---furthermore, their brazen enough to protest and claim it is us that are the invaders.

    This has got to be stopped--- and no, annexing Mexico is not the solution and a 53.8% White country is not a desired or acceptable goal.

  48. I shouldn't have to repeat it here but I will. Steve Holsten is a monster who trys to pass himself off as a white man. Anything he says in my name or concerning the NSM should be taken with a grain of salt. No one with his preversions would ever be let into the NSM nor would I ever accept money from Mr. Holsten or anyone with known Jewish blood.

    That is all.

  49. Whoah, just woke up and started listening to the Horrible Hal network. Mostly it's just a bunch of shite from fucking boring wierd old crypto-Nazis blathering on and on about some Jews and how they're more evil than all the demons of hell combined. In other words, pretty typical.

    Where the hell do they grow these impotent, corny old farts? They all have the same toneless "harumph!" voice, and sound like they've not seen their willies since they were twelve years old.

    So Steph, now that I am awake, you think that I am giving you too-much credit? Huh? Well, if you want to be thought of as some crusty, shit-kicking old bearded Aryan Nations clown with wild anti-Semitic fires burning in his squinty little eyes, and colonies of lice crawling in his beard--I suppose I am.

    Better watch out, you'll end up looking like that picture of James Wickstrom on the front page, here. OR, you'll end up some pasty, bloated, whiny, wierdy crypto-Nazi like Bill White; in other words, a creature of questionable credibility and obviously fetishistic libido.

    What? You think he hangs out with guys in snappy uniforms and leather boots just because he cares so much about the "struggle"?

    Mate, the only struggle Will Blight has going on internally is the struggle to keep himself latched firmly in Hitler's Crowded Closet.


    I like that!

    As for me, I'm bloody sick of the lot of it. Go off and do whatever you feel you must to "save" the world; t'aint gonna do a damn bit of good anyhoo.

    Most of us just want happiness, peace, love, and plenty. A young guy like you, stomping around worried about the nefarious Mexicans is enough to make me queasy.

    Suggestion: settle down with a Mexican girl. Have alot of half-Mexican babies, and eat alot of Mexican food.

    Because, really, DUDE, just about every race on the planet has some wankers milling about in its ranks. Who really gives a shite?

    "Not I", said The Sailor.

    I can't tell you the amount of white people walking about that I feel absolutely NO kinship with whatsoever. No compatible background experiences, no similarities; no way to relate.

    There is no "Brotherhood of Race." It's just more hopped-up nonsense from mealy little worm-men who feel so bloody insecure they gravitate to swazis and "racial politics" to fill the void in their life that screams at them, "You are an EMPTY individual!"

    Word to the Wiseguy--


    PS: Steph, I come from a shitkicker state. I know shitkickers, inside and out, upside down, and backwards. I know twenty eight people that would remind you, to a T, of Terrible Tommy Metzger.

    Everyone of them is a disability slob that lives in a ratty-ass house, drinks cheap beer, and is addicted to prescription painkillers.

    WN's are all alike. And I don't even care if that statement ranks as "intolerance".


  50. Steve Holsten's son is just a chip off the old block. In 2001 Steve himself faced charges of "exposing himself to a minor" but due to him being a cripple (I understand he really played this angle up, taking a wheel chair to court) Steve was able to plea it down to a misdomeanor. Steve (under Missouri law) was only forced to register as a sex offender for two years. Hopefully the son will be sent to prison where every other inmate will give him the attention he deserves!

  51. Turner, you're a typical nutsie. You're a coward and a backstabber. Holswine is a retard and an idiot, but he sticks up for you on N.I.M. Busters, when people like me are trashing you, your mud wife, and retarded kid. And yet here's chickenshit Turdner, trashing one of the few allies he has.

    Turdner, everyohe on the Internet knows you for the liar you are. All that money you beg like a mud for goes right up your nose. Now, do the world a favor: hurry up and die! It should be so easy for you to do. You can O.D. like you nearly did two years ago. You can stand up in New York City and shout your tired shitler rhetoric. You can even stand in front of a genuine "gunny" and claim to be the marine you weren't.

    Seriously Hal, make the world a better place and die. I'll "water" your grave.

  52. Black Jesus, if that really is your name, you are the lowest of the low. To jump on someone when the world is crashing down on them is the most cowardly act of all. If you really want to prove your manhood BJ, take a moment and pray for Holswine's son. Pray for his soul. Or, aren't you man enough? Remember what Christ said, BJ: "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

  53. Steve,

    Dont let these crackheads on this board destroy you. Let's hope everything will work out for the best. These crackheads must have lots of time on thier hands to be doing this nonsesnse....

  54. Sorry, Steve. I should have typed your name properly, and I didn't. It's "Holsten," and I apologize.

  55. take a moment and pray for Holswine's son. Pray for his soul.

    I pray Chirs and his dad burn in hell for what they do to children

  56. supreme nim buster said:

    "I pray Chirs and his dad burn in hell for what they do to children"


    I hope you are without sin, because if you are not, you might get judged. Please see my earlier post on that.

  57. Homeland Security official busted for the same thing that Christopher Holsten did.

    Steevo and Lloyd Davis support this kind of behavior by public officials by thinking that it is okay for 14 year olds and under to consent to sex.


  58. First off, I'm not just bashing on Holswine because he is down. I am bashing on him because he is a worthless child molesting bastard with no moral values. He is trash pure and simple. Chris Holswine deserves everything that comes his way. I personally intend to follow his case. When he goes to prison I plan to write his fellow inmates to tell them just what crime he actually committed. The feds have that wonderful inmate locator system that will make this possible. I've worked for the BOP and I can tell you that baby rappers aren't real popular behind bars. Chris better count on becoming some bad man's bitch.

    Oh and Stevo, Chris ain't getting off without prison time. You can count on that. Baby rappers always get time.

  59. Chris will get jail time and deserves jail time. He'll also get his mug plastered on the Missouri sex offender website.

  60. Go ahead and tell yourself Chris isn't going to get any jail time, Stevo. You can tell yourself their is a Santie Claus while you're at it. You'd better make sure that Chris has plenty of K-Y in prison, he's gonna need it. Count on it.

  61. Go ahead and tell yourself Chris isn't going to get any jail time, Stevo. You can tell yourself their is a Santie Claus while you're at it. You'd better make sure that Chris has plenty of K-Y in prison, he's gonna need it. Count on it.---Black Jesus

    Since Chris didn’t molest a child—simply solicited for sex---there is a good chance that he will get no jail time.

    However, with the new wave of backlash towards sexual predators (i.e. the Jessica Lunsford case), one cannot be to sure.

    This is none of your business, black Jesus, and your incessant picking at this unfortunate incident speaks volumes about your own character.

  62. Holswine:

    I know how to make all your problems disappear and make these people leave you alone.

    Put a shotgun to your fat mouth!

  63. Silly Holwine, dix are for chix.

  64. For the edification of all on this site:

    The sexual molestation is considered by some to be a victimless crime. The person (male or increasingly, female) who commits the act gets relieved of sexual pressure, while supposedly, the one who is molested gets their first taste of sex education. Some believe that for the latter that this is a good thing, since the child learns "the ways of the world" that much sooner. Actually, this is a fallacy.

    Chile molestation leaves a hideous mental scar on the person it was committed on. For the victim, it isn't "life as usual." A victim can try to put the pieces back together, but life is never the same. Oprah Winfrey is close to becoming a billionaire (if she already isn't at this writing), she was raped when she was nine. While she has successfully put this episode behind her, that hideous mental scar is still there. In Oprah's case, I think she secretly hates men, witness the fact that there are no children in her life. Often, victims will do whatever it takes to ensure that they will not become a victim ever again.

  65. all you nazi followers are stupid the main man you worship.hitler. was half a jew and killed his self because he wasnt man engough to face what he did so yall follow words of a pussie

  66. oh yea all child molesters should be shot its sad grown men goes to young girls because they cant get with a real women

  67. Well Dickheads, Chris hasn't stayed in jail at all. I told you he'd be cleared of that Bullshit.


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