Eventually...somewhere down the line...someone is going to get to the truth behind all of this - and this is a start.TO ORIGINAL ARTICLE
Thursday, March 30, 2006
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OKC BOMBING FALLOUT
Federal judge rules: McVeigh had help
Bolsters claims government had informant inside conspiracy to attack federal building
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Posted: March 30, 2006
4:41 a.m. Eastern
By J.D .Cash, Roger Charles
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© 2006 McCurtain Daily Gazette
Damage to Alfred P. Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City, April 19, 1995
A U.S. District Court judge in Salt Lake City, Utah, has issued a stunning decision that appears to bolster claims that executed bomber Timothy McVeigh was supported by various militia groups, and that the government had an informant inside the bombing conspiracy.
The case in Utah grew out of a dispute between civil attorney Jesse Trentadue and the Oklahoma City FBI over documents requested under the Freedom of Information Act.
For over a decade, Trentadue has been searching for documents that might shed light on the death of his brother at the Federal Transfer Center in Oklahoma City, in August of 1995.
The federal government maintains that Kenneth Trentadue killed himself in a suicide-proof cell at the Oklahoma City federal installation, where he was being held on a purported parole violation for failing to report to his parole officer.
In the course of this investigation, Trentadue received "tips" from various sources, including one allegedly from a source close to McVeigh, before McVeigh's execution.
That source said that McVeigh told him that Kenneth Trentadue was beaten, tortured and murdered because the FBI mistakenly believed he was linked to a group of bank bandits that considerable evidence now suggests, assisted McVeigh in the plot to bomb the Oklahoma federal building.
The FOIA suit began after heavily redacted documents obtained by this newspaper, from an FBI whistleblower, confirmed McVeigh's links to Elohim City and informants working for the Southern Poverty Law Center who were present at the paramilitary compound on April 17, 1995, when McVeigh called the camp looking for German-national Andreas Strassmeir and additional help in the bombing.
While heavily redacted, that Jan. 4, 1996, teletype from then-FBI director Louis Freeh to a select group of FBI offices contained information appearing to link Strassmeir to McVeigh and the FBI's knowledge that Strassmeir was planning to flee the country soon.
Inexplicably, the FBI did not go to the residence where the memo said Strassmeir was living in Black Mountain, N.C., and detain the individual for questioning about the bombing. Instead, Strassmeir – with the help on his Black Mountain, N.C. attorney, Kirk Lyons, and former CIA pilot Dave Holloway – was able to slip across the Mexican border a few days after the teletype was issued.
Since the discovery of this heavily redacted document linking the SPLC, Elohim City and Strassmeir to McVeigh and the bombing conspiracy, the FBI has since produced 17 additional documents for Trentadue. However, key sections of those documents were also heavily redacted.
Seeking to have the FBI provide unredacted copies of these additional documents, Trentadue has claimed the FBI has a duty to make a full disclosure of who their informants and suspects in the bombing were, because the national interest in the Oklahoma City bombing, far outweighs any privacy interests those informants and suspects may have had.
In order to determine the validity of the claims made by both sides, the FBI was ordered in November to turn over unredacted copies of all the documents at issue for the judge to examine "in chambers."
Considering Trentadue's allegations about his brother's mysterious and violent death, the judge early in his opinion observed: "While officials ruled the death a suicide, the Plaintiff unearthed significant evidence of foul play. Plaintiff's theory is that his brother apparently looked very similar to Richard Lee Guthrie, who allegedly was one of Timothy McVeigh's accomplices in the Oklahoma City bombing and a member of the Mid-West Bank Robbery Gang. Plaintiff believes that his brother was killed during an overly aggressive interrogation by federal agents – who believed Kenneth Trentadue was Richard Lee Guthrie.
Later in his summary of the facts, Judge Dale Kimball also noted that Guthrie was later apprehended by authorities and he, too, is said to have committed suicide his jail cell while in federal custody.
After reviewing the unredacted documents provided by the FBI, Kimball singled out a teletype issued by the FBI, only six days after the blast.
"Plaintiff points out the fact that this document indicates there was an undercover operative in with Timothy McVeigh and members of the various militia groups who aided and supported McVeigh, but plaintiff wonders why, given the subject matter, there are no earlier records produced by the FBI."
Contacted after the ruling was issued, Trentadue told this newspaper that he is heartened by the language the judged used here, which clearly indicates the unredacted documents convinced the court that McVeigh had accomplices that have not been charged and the government had at least one informant within the cabal.
"The judge concurs with my allegations that McVeigh was supported by this bank robbery group at Elohim City and that the government was inside that group with at least one informant."
The court, though, sided with the FBI in refusing to allow the release of the names of the other suspects or their informants that provided them with information about the conspiracy.
In his 22-page ruling, Kimball said, "(FOIA) Exemption 7D protects records of information compiled for law enforcement purposes which could reasonably be expected to disclose the identity of a confidential source or information furnished by a confidential source."
Regarding the FBI's reluctance to provide the information sought by Trentadue, Kimball wrote, "It is troubling that so many of the documents produced by the FBI refer to FD-302s (investigation leads) that were or should have been prepared, and the disclosed documents also refer to other attachments that at one time appear to have accompanied the document, yet these documents have not been produced. While the FBI's failure to discover documents is not necessarily and indication of bad faith, it is puzzling that so many documents could be referenced but not produced."
Focusing on Morris Dees and the organization he co-founded, the SPLC, the judge ordered the FBI to conduct additional record searches for documents containing the names of Morris Dees, the SPLC and several radical members of the far-right that frequented Elohim City and that have been linked in the past to McVeigh.
Encouraging the FBI to fully cooperate with attorney Trentadue in his dogged search for the truth around his brother's murder, Kimball warned the agency: "It appears likely, however, that the FBI has not seen the last FOIA request from Plaintiff."
One senior, retired FBI agent who read only the paragraph quoted above from the judge's ruling said that the judge's finding that there was an informant and a broader conspiracy than heretofore admitted by the government makes even more inexplicable the FBI headquarters' shutting down all investigations into the Elohim City connection to OKBOMB.
He further stated that it would be "a huge scandal" if it is ever proven that Strassmeir's name is among those currently withheld as having been guaranteed confidentiality as an informant.
This will be interesting to follow. If the SPLC did have an informant and that informant did have knowledge of something about OKC but didn't notify the government, racists and conspiracy theorist are going to have a field day with this.
ReplyDeleteYup, this only proves that the Clinton Administration used the SPLC and other so-called "anti-racist" groups to get the OKC bombing done, to villify and destroy the political right in America.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.americanfreepress.net/html/even_with_morris_dees.html
ReplyDeleteMore Mud On Morris Dees Thrown, LOL
Victim of Smear Campaign Gets Even With Morris Dees
By James P. Tucker Jr.
Morris Dees, who makes a lucrative career out of smearing many decent U.S. organizations, was visibly shaken at what he expected to be a “sweetheart” event when a pro-Southern group on his hit list challenged him on his lurid past, The Times Examiner of Greenville, S.C., reports.
Dees spoke at the University of South Carolina’s “Carolina Productions Lecture Series,” a student-run campus organization, on Feb. 27. An estimated 300 people, including more than 30 law enforcement personnel, attended. Some professors ordered students to attend; some gave extra credit for attending. Considering how embarrassing it proved for Dees, his faculty cheerleaders probably regret such pressure.
Dees labeled the League of the South as “racist” and “terrorist” in publications put out by his Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) and public statements.
But the League is “racially neutral with members of different races,” said Lexington attorney Larry Salley, a member of the board.
H.K. Edgetton of Black Mountain, a black man noted for supporting southern heritage, called Dees a “poverty pimp” during the question-and-answer period.
But it was Salley who had the most fun with Dees.
“Salley prepared and passed out a well-documented brochure that appeared to be the official program, featuring Dees’s photograph and the statement ‘With Justice for All’ on the cover,” The Times Examiner reported.
Inside, after the anticipated Dees-friendly words, the brochure transitioned into the harsh facts with footnotes citing the source of the material. Dees disciples, in blissful ignorance, helped hand out the brochures.
One of the 14 documented statements is from Harper’s magazine:
“The cover story of Harper’s magazine’s November 2000 issue exposed the SPLC’s alarmist fund-raising tactics with which it raises large sums that are not used to help those it purports to serve. The Southern Center for Human Rights’ Stephen Bright charged that [Dees] is a fraud who has milked a lot of very wonderful, well-intentioned people. If it’s got headlines, Morris is there.”
Quoting from the Alabama Court of Civil Appeals, CIV2114 (1979), the brochure says:
“Of all the damning indictments against Morris Dees, the worst comes from his closest connection. He was sued by his ex-wife, Maureene Bass Dees, who alleged that he had committed incest with his stepdaughter and future daughter-in-law.”
“When Dees saw the program he was visibly shaken,” the paper quotes Salley. “I stood up and asked him why 55 percent of the SPLC’s income went into his pocket, and he tried to shout me down. Then other members of our group tried to ask him similar questions, and they shut down the question-and-answer period.”
Carolina Productions “is taxpayer funded and in the past they have had groups such as transvestite exotic dancers,” Salley said.
The following night Dees spoke at Western Carolina University where about 200 attendees received the same brochure.
Dees refused to comment on the well-deserved roasting he took.
This is pretty much a load of crap. I was at the Federal Transfer Center in Oklahoma City at the time of Trentadue's death (worked as a volunteer trying to get on as a social worker with the BOP). More than likely he was beaten to death by guards but it had nothing to do with the Oklahoma City bombing. He was in a solitary cell in Special Housing Unit (SPU). No one before or after his death was able to commit suicide in such as cell (The cells were made to be "suicide proof").
ReplyDeleteThe inmates counselor a guy named Roberts sent in three trusties following Trentadue's death to clean the cell (in the middle of the night) and to cover up evidence of the beating. Trentadue was beaten to death because he spit on guards and was abusive toward same. He was always trying to volunteer information of lessen his sentence but the FBI had long since determine that Trentadue had no useful information to give.
BJ - I don't put much stock into the Trentadue claims, other than there was a cover-up surrounding his death. But...the connection to Elohim City and the Aryan Republican Army that McVeigh had is something that has never been dealt with.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, the role that Strassmeir and Dennis Mahon played in all of this has, to this point, been pretty much ignored.
There are enough people still plugging away at this mess that maybe, just maybe, we will get some answers.
STF yourself, Jew. Jews are even worse than spics in my book. It would be great if this country would adopt Hilters solution (gas chambers) to you and all your kind, Steve.
ReplyDeleteMinuteman,
ReplyDeleteYou idiots need to decide something. Half of you nazi's deny the holocaust, half of you brag about it.
Which is it?
Steve Holsten,
You continue to show your mental retardation.
Isn't it funny how the nazi's want their free speech protected by waving the nazi flag, yet want to destroy the free speech of millions by denying them the right to fly the mexican flag?
ReplyDeleteI do think that nazism should be treated the same as Al Qaeda in the United States. Both groups want to overthrow the US government and kill all who disagree with them and their religion.
The thing that always stands out to me is that the Nazi's cloak themselves in the Constitution which is the very foundation of our government - yet, if they came to power - they want that very government replaced.
ReplyDeleteAnd...yes, they really do want to exercise their rights while trampling all over everyone elses.
Stefan,
ReplyDeleteBut my remark is right on the money, isn't it?
"Even if 6 million Jews were exterminated in the most cruel and degrading ways possible, that still does not tarnish National Socialism as a viable political option."--S.S.
ReplyDeleteMr. Schmidt, this is an outrageous statement. Quit trying to bait me.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteOnly a damned fool thinks the Holocaust was a "hoax"... unless said damned fool believes that *only* gays, gypsies, and everyone BUT the Jews, were fed into the gas chambers...
ReplyDeleteBut, hey, why deny something BAD happening to millions of Jews? Isn't that what the stump-jumpin' inbred WNer's *want* to happen? Lots of dead Jews? It's a masturbatory fantasy for the "kill nigras an' Joos" crowd!
Harry F. Schwartz: "I do think that nazism should be treated the same as Al Qaeda in the United States. Both groups want to overthrow the US government..."
ReplyDeleteFood for thought for ostensible revolutionaries such as anarchists and communists who willingly allow themselves to be led around by SPLC/ADL types.
William Alexander,
ReplyDeleteYou still are hooked that nearly everyone is a communist aren't you?
Kind of like those mentally ill people who claim that everyone is spying for the CIA.
Or perhaps in your case that everyone is working for the SPLC/ADL.
Check your closet before going to bed, a commie might be hiding out there.
LOL!
ReplyDeleteStop it, you guys are killing me.
I'm not anti-communist, btw, Harry.
Some father Steve HOlsten turns out to be. His son just got arrested in a pedophile sting in Kennett.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dddnews.com/story/1145634.html
Christopher L Holsten
And yes, it's Steve's son who lives at the same address as Steve. The same Steve who didn't mind his 13 year old daughter dating a 22 year old man.
maybe your 23 year old son got the idea he could have sex with a 13 year old from you, after all you let your 13 year old daughter date a 24 year old man
ReplyDeleteStop with the lies Steve. Any 23 year old will know it's against the law to have sex with a minor. Your son is not a teenager, he's 23.
ReplyDeleteYour son went into that chat room on his own free will looking for sex with a minor, then went to visit that minor's house only to be an FBI sting.
You were the one looking for underaged porn on usenet, you were the one spamming underaged porn on yahoo groups, and you are the one who said you would have sex with a 14 year old if she threw herself at you and you said you think age of consent laws should be reduced.
Like father, like son eh Steevo?
Pedophiles at heart. The only thing that stops you from molesting is being locked up in prison.
Here is the charges Steve's son is charged with.
ReplyDeleteEnticement Of Child (Actor 21 Yrs Of Age Or Older And Child Less Than 15 Yrs Of Age) { Felony C RSMo: 566.151 }
Statutory Rape - 2nd Degree { Felony C RSMo: 566.034 }
So he's over 21 trying to entice kids under the age of 15.
Nice Steve.
Uh...there is nothing in this world that I detest more than someone who preys on or mistreats children. Sexual predators are, without a doubt, the worst kind of anomaly found in this world.
ReplyDeleteSteve - I cannot believe, even knowing that this is your son, that you can come in here and try to justify or explain what this man did. This is not a high-school teenager. This is not a child who needs to be educated. This is a 23 year old man and you cannot tell me that he didn't know this was against the law.
Bullshit.
Plea bargain down to a misdemeanor???? Are you completely out of your mind? The child he thought he was enticing was UNDER 15! What 23 year old man wants to have sex with a baby???? Only a depraved and despicable human being that needs to have his dick cut off would do something like that!
But then...when daddy allows his 13 year old daughter to go out with a 22 year-old man, I guess the son was raised by example. What a distasteful and horrid example that is.
And this is a friend of Hal Turner? Uh...huh. That speaks volumes about the little man.
Nikki,
ReplyDeleteSteve is just a TYPICAL example of the morals of white racists.
I wonder how many REAL victims there were before the FBI sting happened.
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BTW: I was checking dddnews.com for all the torandoes that happened in Steevo's neck of the woods and then typed in Holsten in the search box and guess what was the first hit?
Then to make sure, I went to Missouri case.net, typed in the name, and the address was Steevo's alright.
And yes, Steevo is on record that the age of consent should be lowered to 14 (or lower) so he damn well knew it was illegal.
This man should have been locked up for child negligence and endangerment when he allowed his child of 13 to date a 22-year-old. Steveo - you are a pathetic individual who has no business having children - and I find you absolutely despicable.
ReplyDeleteThere are several of these racists who believe that once a girl starts a menstrual cycle they are old enough to marry and breed. What kind of sickness is this?
Additionally - if, at 23, your son didn't know better - he must be an idiot - and what does that say about you?
ReplyDeleteThe man was trolling the internet looking for children to have sex with - who did he learn that from?
LOL! Great minds, and all that...I'm working on something regarding how absolutely stupid he is. I read that earlier and thought WTF?
ReplyDeleteStefan,
ReplyDeleteThat 53-56% figure is right if you're talking about the North American continent as a whole.
"I am not sure what he considers White but the bean eating Sombrero wearing Mexcrement don’t count."
He's talking about folks like Martin Sheen(Esteban Estevez), Charlie Sheen (Carlos Estevez) and Emilio Estevez (the only one of the bunch to keep his real name throughout his Hollywood career.
The reason that very, very, very few white Mexicans migrate here is... well, they don't need to. The constitute the ruling class of Mexico (see Vicente Fox), so barring some sort of nationwide indios/Zapatista uprising they have no reason to immigrate.
The Mexicans who come to the States, by and large, are the poorest, least educated, most desperate strata of Mexican society -- generally unskilled manual laborers, many of whom are not even literate in Spanish.
Mexican immigration to the U.S. functions as a safety valve in Mexican society -- those people crossing the border are precisely the ones who would be taking to the streets with machetes, torches and guns -- burning down villas and government buildings and what have you.
This is why no Mexican leader in his right mind -- I don't care what party he represents or what his political philosophy is -- will stand for a closed border with the U.S. There'll be hell to pay, in some way, shape or form.
I agree...that comment was definitely beneath you, Stefan.
ReplyDeleteEB - you're right - he is doing himself in. But, ya have to admit, this guy is a real piece of work. And...what does this say about those who agree to follow him? Damn! They are really needy, huh?
I should add that it looks like the anti-capitalist/anti-Bush wave that is sweeping across Latin America has also had a massive impact in Mexico, and it looks like Fox is going to lose the upcoming elections to a Socialist of some sort.
ReplyDeleteIf, as a result of this, the living conditions in Mexico improve slightly for the poorest segments of Mexican society, the numbers of illegals may dwindle on their own without the U.S. government having to resort to any (more) authoritarian measures.
EB: "If you really must tell him personally, steph, he just posted a message to this board."
ReplyDeleteOh my God, you're hopeless. I'm sure not even a DNA test would convince you that I'm anyone other than Bill White.
I shouldn't have to repeat it here but I will. Steve Holsten is a monster who trys to pass himself off as a white man. Anything he says in my name or concerning the NSM should be taken with a grain of salt. No one with his preversions would ever be let into the NSM nor would I ever accept money from Mr. Holsten or anyone with known Jewish blood.
ReplyDeleteThat is all.
Steve Holsten's son is just a chip off the old block. In 2001 Steve himself faced charges of "exposing himself to a minor" but due to him being a cripple (I understand he really played this angle up, taking a wheel chair to court) Steve was able to plea it down to a misdomeanor. Steve (under Missouri law) was only forced to register as a sex offender for two years. Hopefully the son will be sent to prison where every other inmate will give him the attention he deserves!
ReplyDeleteTurner, you're a typical nutsie. You're a coward and a backstabber. Holswine is a retard and an idiot, but he sticks up for you on N.I.M. Busters, when people like me are trashing you, your mud wife, and retarded kid. And yet here's chickenshit Turdner, trashing one of the few allies he has.
ReplyDeleteTurdner, everyohe on the Internet knows you for the liar you are. All that money you beg like a mud for goes right up your nose. Now, do the world a favor: hurry up and die! It should be so easy for you to do. You can O.D. like you nearly did two years ago. You can stand up in New York City and shout your tired shitler rhetoric. You can even stand in front of a genuine "gunny" and claim to be the marine you weren't.
Seriously Hal, make the world a better place and die. I'll "water" your grave.
Black Jesus, if that really is your name, you are the lowest of the low. To jump on someone when the world is crashing down on them is the most cowardly act of all. If you really want to prove your manhood BJ, take a moment and pray for Holswine's son. Pray for his soul. Or, aren't you man enough? Remember what Christ said, BJ: "Judge not, lest ye be judged."
ReplyDeleteSteve,
ReplyDeleteDont let these crackheads on this board destroy you. Let's hope everything will work out for the best. These crackheads must have lots of time on thier hands to be doing this nonsesnse....
Sorry, Steve. I should have typed your name properly, and I didn't. It's "Holsten," and I apologize.
ReplyDeletetake a moment and pray for Holswine's son. Pray for his soul.
ReplyDelete==========
I pray Chirs and his dad burn in hell for what they do to children
supreme nim buster said:
ReplyDelete"I pray Chirs and his dad burn in hell for what they do to children"
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I hope you are without sin, because if you are not, you might get judged. Please see my earlier post on that.
Homeland Security official busted for the same thing that Christopher Holsten did.
ReplyDeleteSteevo and Lloyd Davis support this kind of behavior by public officials by thinking that it is okay for 14 year olds and under to consent to sex.
Link
First off, I'm not just bashing on Holswine because he is down. I am bashing on him because he is a worthless child molesting bastard with no moral values. He is trash pure and simple. Chris Holswine deserves everything that comes his way. I personally intend to follow his case. When he goes to prison I plan to write his fellow inmates to tell them just what crime he actually committed. The feds have that wonderful inmate locator system that will make this possible. I've worked for the BOP and I can tell you that baby rappers aren't real popular behind bars. Chris better count on becoming some bad man's bitch.
ReplyDeleteOh and Stevo, Chris ain't getting off without prison time. You can count on that. Baby rappers always get time.
Chris will get jail time and deserves jail time. He'll also get his mug plastered on the Missouri sex offender website.
ReplyDeleteGo ahead and tell yourself Chris isn't going to get any jail time, Stevo. You can tell yourself their is a Santie Claus while you're at it. You'd better make sure that Chris has plenty of K-Y in prison, he's gonna need it. Count on it.
ReplyDeleteHolswine:
ReplyDeleteI know how to make all your problems disappear and make these people leave you alone.
Put a shotgun to your fat mouth!
Silly Holwine, dix are for chix.
ReplyDeleteFor the edification of all on this site:
ReplyDeleteThe sexual molestation is considered by some to be a victimless crime. The person (male or increasingly, female) who commits the act gets relieved of sexual pressure, while supposedly, the one who is molested gets their first taste of sex education. Some believe that for the latter that this is a good thing, since the child learns "the ways of the world" that much sooner. Actually, this is a fallacy.
Chile molestation leaves a hideous mental scar on the person it was committed on. For the victim, it isn't "life as usual." A victim can try to put the pieces back together, but life is never the same. Oprah Winfrey is close to becoming a billionaire (if she already isn't at this writing), she was raped when she was nine. While she has successfully put this episode behind her, that hideous mental scar is still there. In Oprah's case, I think she secretly hates men, witness the fact that there are no children in her life. Often, victims will do whatever it takes to ensure that they will not become a victim ever again.
all you nazi followers are stupid the main man you worship.hitler. was half a jew and killed his self because he wasnt man engough to face what he did so yall follow words of a pussie
ReplyDeleteoh yea all child molesters should be shot its sad grown men goes to young girls because they cant get with a real women
ReplyDeleteWell Dickheads, Chris hasn't stayed in jail at all. I told you he'd be cleared of that Bullshit.
ReplyDelete