Friday, December 04, 2009

Hal Gets The Weekend

Now, this is really rich! Here's the report from One Peoples Project...

We all know that Justice is blind, but after today, we might also be able to count mental illness among its handicaps! Sure, we are not the most impartial group in the world, as it stands with Hal Turner, but guilty or not guilty, we thought there would be a real concrete verdict in this case going through the courts. But alas we are dealing with a case involving white supremacists, and we are starting to get used to the hoops folks have to jump through to nail these bastards. Just wait until next week, when Bill White goes to trial! That promises to be just as WTFish as this case has been. So the deal is this: Turner's jury deadlocked, the judge ordered them to deliberate more, they did so for a few more hours and sent out a weird question before calling it quits for the day. So we have at the very least one more day - Monday - of this trial, and if this results in a mistrial, keep the summer free for them to do it all over again! Oh, and it was real nice to see damn near everyone from ACORN in the courtroom next door trying to get their funding back after all the right-wing agitation against them. They really loved the fact that a neo-Nazi who once called upon his radio listeners to do harm to them was facing a judge for something his damn self. Gotta love the irony!

One People's Project

Harold C. "Hal" Turner, the white supremacist who for eight years hosted an internet radio show where he repeatedly called for violence against those he had political issues with, is getting a temporary reprieve from a verdict in a trial charging him with inciting violence against three federal judges in Chicago. After 2½ hours, the jury informed the court that they were hopelessly deadlocked, but will return on Monday to deliberate more.

At 3:30, the multiracial 6-man, 6-woman jury sent Judge Don Walter a note about them not being able to come up with a unanimous verdict. Judge Walter sent the jury back to deliberate longer, reminding them of the costs of the trial. "This is an important case,"

Walter said to them in court. "This trial has been expensive in time and money." By 5:30 he had released them for the weekend.

Earlier, after the jury was given the case, prosecutors tried in vain to have one juror removed because of concerns about his impartiality. The juror, an Asian man, had told the court that he was particularly knowledgeable about the First Amendment. Judge Walter felt however, that he presented no issues during the course of the trial, and chose to keep him on. Later, during the second round of deliberations, a question was asked the court by a juror asking if a person who makes a written statement responsible for that statement, as opposed to if they make a verbal one. Judge Walter responded by saying there is no distinction between verbal or written statements.

The charges stem from a June 2, entry in Turner's blog about the judges who ruled on a gun control case in a way Turner didn't approve. In response, Turner called out the judges as "devils" and provided maps and photographs of the office building where they worked. "Let me be the first to say this plainly," he wrote on his website, "these judges deserve to be killed." He had obtained the home addresses of the judges later in the day, but before he could post them he was arrested by Connecticut authorities for similarly threatening government officials in that state. Those charges are still pending.

In his closing arguments, prosecutor William E. Ridgeway maintained that what Turner posted on his website was outside the scope of free speech and should be considered a threat, as it would be the conclusion of any rational person who read those words. Defense Attorney Nishay K. Sanan, who described Turner as a "shock jock" along the lines of Howard Stern and Don Imus said otherwise to the jury. "Giving your opinion is not a crime," Sanan, said. "To criticize the judiciary is not a crime." Sanan also tried to suggest that Turner's remark of "Obey the Constitution or die!" was no different than someone wearing a T-Shirt saying "Skate or Die" or "Snowboard or Die" Prosecutor William Hogan in his rebuttal said "That's just ridiculous!" Hogan also noted that the attempt to make the FBI responsible for how Turner acted was a "non-starter", citing the numerous times he was admonished, approached and finally removed from the informant program because of his activities online.

Coincidentally, the national leaders of one of the groups Turner had attacked, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), was in the courtroom next door to his to suing to get their funding back after they were stripped by Congress after an almost 2-year long campaign against the group by conservatives groups and politicians. Last year, Turner took issue with the story that ACORN was involved in voter fraud, and linked to a list of ACORN offices around the country while also posting, "I think it might be wise for the general public to pay a visit to their nearest ACORN office and make certain the office is . . . . . . not able . . . . . . to do this anymore." ACORN was not aware of Turner's trial taking place.

If the jury remains deadlocked at the end of deliberations, the re-trial will possibly take place on or around June 1.


  1. Like I said on the previous thread, if this deadlocked 7-5 or 6-6, the government really shouldn't attempt this again. But if it is just one or two jurors deadlocking this, then yes, it should be retried.

  2. In a case like this with a deadlock, don't they usually disclose the count?

  3. Also - I'm no expert, but I have never heard of a prosecutor trying to get rid of a juror AFTER the case had been handed to the jury.

  4. """Oh, and it was real nice to see damn near everyone from ACORN in the courtroom next door trying to get their funding back after all the right-wing agitation against them."""

    This is a really interesting statement considering that ACORN has been caught breaking the law in almost unbelievable ways on numerous occasions. It almost seems that you are saying that Republicans are the reason why and the accusations are unjust, as if they didn't do them or something.

    Nikki, do you feel that voter fraud is OK as long as it is Democrats that they are benefiting? Or that Obama paid ACORN $800,000.00 for that voter fraud.

    How about ACORN willing to help with a child molestation operation? I thought you had some compassion for innocent children.

    Or their employee teaching a prostitute how to evade taxes and telling her that she set up the murder of her husband?

  5. If it is a mistrial, I'm almost certain that the judge will pool the jury one by one.

    Hal also still faces Connecticut charges, I wonder if these pro-bono 1st amendment lawyers will help him again

  6. I'm not a fan of ACORN by any means by the way. I'm anti-racist but not liberal by any means.

    But also, they probably tried to set up dozens of ACORN employees via this stuff, and got a couple of them doing wrong.. and then claim it was all of ACORN doing it. Oldest political trick in the book.

  7. Hooch - I didn't write the article. It came from OPP. I have very definite thoughts on ACORN but would prefer to address that in another thread. But, I think you already know how I feel.

    Harry - Since Orozco has been representing him in CT he probably will continue to do so.

  8. What a fucking farce.

    The government is use to wasting money, and this will give them time to cover up facts Turner was about to unload on them before this bs trial was brought to a screaching halt yesterday.

    Yes, there is a good chance it will be retried.

  9. They wanted to can a juror because he stated he had a good understanding of the 1st Amendment? ROTFLMAO!!!!

  10. I am certain if Turner had an all white jury he they would have returned a guilty verdict within an hour.

    There is something to be said for "diverse" juries.

  11. Anonymous said...
    They wanted to can a juror because he stated he had a good understanding of the 1st Amendment? ROTFLMAO!!!!

    I knew one of you would catch that! ;)

  12. "Hogan also noted that the attempt to make the FBI responsible for how Turner acted was a "non-starter", citing the numerous times he was admonished, approached and finally removed from the informant program because of his activities online."

    Yea, right. That's why they shut down the trial and sent it to the jury.

    People with an IQ above 70 don't buy this.

  13. "I knew one of you would catch that! ;)"

    I would be willing to bet it was the prosecution that wanted this gentleman excused. lol

    But honestly, Nikki, this trial just reinforces my notion there really isn't "justice" in this nation any longer--not for everyday, normal people.

    Regardless of what side of the fence you are on (as Nikki would like to say).

    Let's face facts:

    If Hal Turner didn't have hundreds of thousands in the bank--he would be in fucking jail right now

    If Bill didn't have rich folk to help him out--HE WOULD HAVE NO HOPE OF ANY SORT OF JUSTICE.

    Just think of all the poor slobs out there that get caught up into this fucked up system we have (many unfairly--yes most of which are blacks btw)and how they never see the light of day.

    Remember seeing the movie "Midnight Express" and how the guy said a society was judged by their own laws and how they meted out mercy...well, something like that.

    WE DON'T HAVE A VERY JUST OR MERCIFUL SOCIETY. Take it for what it is worth.

  14. Wow, Hal has already served 119 days in jail. How many of our tax dollars has he wasted? I say if it is a hung jury let the sleeping little rat go. Find whomever in our government put him on the payroll and fire them. Enough is enough stop the bleeding.

  15. You just brought up Midnight Express - a movie I will never forget. It scarred me for life.

    I agree - the justice system is more than broken - it's fucked beyond repair.

    UFT - I think we're about to bleed out.

  16. Anonymous says:

    Let's face facts:

    If Hal Turner didn't have hundreds of thousands in the bank--he would be in fucking jail right now

    If Bill didn't have rich folk to help him out--HE WOULD HAVE NO HOPE OF ANY SORT OF JUSTICE.

    That is not really true. The federal system is actually pretty fair. Some of the public defenders used are quite good. It isn't as bad as the state system were you can buy yourself out of "justice".

    I can't find it in my heart to feel sorry for either Bill or Hal in the old USSR they would have just taken them out and shot them. Personally I think the two of them are just getting a heavy dose of Karma.

  17. After reflecting on this case...I get the funny feeling Glenn Beck is Hal Turner's replacement...just sayin'my opinion an' all.

    "I am ten thousand miles away...and don't even know my name".

  18. You just brought up Midnight Express - a movie I will never forget. It scarred me for life.

    Yes, that is a hard movie to a former radio man I appreciate the music. lol

  19. ACORN is a good organization with a few problems. I have no problem with them and more than likely they will get some federal funding restored. Of course the GOP is going to bitch about that but who really cares? If the GOP cared more about the inner cities and urban areas (voters thanks to ACORN) then ACORN would be there friends as well but they don't.
    Bush made the abundantly clear in his response to Katrina. The GOP has no one to blame but themselves.

  20. excellent article on all of this, Nikki should consider reposting this

    Though this comes from a right-wing perspective, it is the best take (and comparison) I have read yet.

  21. Prefabricated Fascists: The FBI’s Assembly-Line Provocateurs

    by William Norman Grigg
    by William Norman Grigg

    It's difficult not to experience a faint pang of sympathy for Hal Turner, albeit an ephemeral one deeply buried beneath multiple layers of well-earned disgust.

    For at least five years, and probably more, Turner was a paid informant and provocateur in the employ of the world's largest sponsor of terrorism, the Federal Government. His assignment was to bait easily influenced people with incendiary rhetoric about race and other resentments, and reel in anyone who bit a little too lustily on the bait. The Bureau credits Turner with personally bringing more than 100 "extremists" to their attention, many of whom (the Bureau won't specify how many) were arrested.

    There's every likelihood that at least some of Turner's victims were offered the same deal offered to Randy Weaver after he was set up on trivial and spurious firearms charges by an undercover snitch for the ATF: Become an informant/provocateur, and you'll stay out of jail. end part 1

  22. Part 2:

    Weaver rejected the deal, and the FBI eventually retaliated by attacking his home and murdering his wife and son. Jose Padilla, a rougher customer than Weaver, rejected the same deal; he was declared an "enemy combatant," subjected to prolonged torture intended to destroy his mental equilibrium and break his will, and eventually convicted on exceptionally dubious terrorism-related charges.

    Before he was outed as a stukach in early 2007, Turner was the host of a web-based talk radio program and a freelance speaker who specialized in "incitement-and-indictment" entrapment of "right-wing extremists." Hackers discovered a cache of e-mail correspondence between Turner and William Haug, an agent working for a Joint Terrorism Task Force who acted as the informant's handler. Turner closed down his radio program while emitting great gusts of affected outrage over what he insisted were spurious accusations that he had collaborated with the Feds.

    In a message posted to Pro Libertate after he was identified as an agent provocateur – along with federal assets tasked to carry out similar missions within Muslim sub-populations in the U.S. – Turner insisted that only "PARANOID FREAKS (like this blog)" would suspect him of collaboration.

    By way of establishing his neo-Nazi bona fides, Turner boasted that "my [white supremacist] rallies in Kingston NY and Kalamazoo, MI cost those cities $60,000 and $120,000 respectively in police overtime and that there's no way the FBI would have approved anything like that by an informant because the cities would have demanded the money back!"

  23. part 3:

    Actually, as we'll see anon, the FBI has no problem staging white supremacist rallies and protest marches that help "local" police departments rack up overtime.

    Certainly, the police don't mind making a little extra money by swanning about in riot gear. Events of the sort Turner organized are an intelligence bonanza for the Regime: They give the FBI (and, most likely, other Homeland Security assets) an opportunity to harvest detailed information for federal databases about both "right-wing extremists" and their opposition.

    We know this is the case through first-person testimony from an FBI undercover asset who spent nearly a decade worming his way through the "radical right" – including the National Socialist Movement (NSM).

    The NSM's adherents doubtless see themselves as the finely honed blade of a resurgent "white power" movement, a description promoted with similar zeal by professional hate-hucksters like Morris Dees' artfully misnamed Southern Poverty Law Center and the so-called Anti-Defamation League.

    Actually, the NSM is "all show, no go" – it's more of a federally controlled traveling roadshow, sort of a Third Reich tribute band. Its cadres exude all of the raw menace of the hapless Illinois Nazis from The Blues Brothers, and possess all of the street-fighting chops of the bumbling Black Widow biker gang from Clinton Eastwood's Philo Beddoe films.

    But I digress.

  24. What a load of bullshit (above) grow a fucking brain.

  25. part 4:

    We were discussing Hal Turner's career as an FBI informant/provocateur code-named "Valhalla," details about which have been pried from the Bureau by reporters for the Bergen (New Jersey) Record.

    Beginning in 2003 (or, as Turner claims, 2002), Turner was a paid informant "who spied on his own controversial followers," reports the Record, citing "government documents, e-mails, court records, and almost 20 hours of jailhouse interviews" with the snitch. Turner "received thousands of dollars from the FBI to report on such groups as the Aryan Nations and the white supremacist National Alliance, and even a member of the Blue Eyed Devils skinhead punk band."

    "I was not some street snitch," insists Turner. "I was a deep undercover intelligence operative." He demands recognition of that distinction with the same desperate desire for dignity displayed by any other whore who seeks to upgrade his or her job description with a more refined title.

    The FBI budgeted at least $100,000 to pay for Turner's performances, both on his radio program and in public speeches. He now insists that he was merely role-playing on behalf of his pimps – both the FBI's Special Agent Haug and New Jersey State Police Detective Leonard Nerbetski, who also served on the Newark Joint Terrorism Task Force.

    As he tells the story, Turner was required to feign passion for various unsavory causes: In interviews with the Record, Turner maintained that "the FBI coached him to make racist, anti-Semitic and other threatening statements and new now feels double-crossed by the Bureau after his arrest."

    "The audience loves the rip-roaring radio psycho," Turner boasted in an e-mail to the FBI. "They literally throw money at it. Just be confident that the personality you hear (or hear about) on radio is not real life. I have zero intention of doing anything stupid."

    In the guise of the "radio psycho," Turner – with the FBI's help – was pulling down about $15,000 a month to express such edifying sentiments as the following: "A full day of violence against blacks would be a really nice thing.... [L]ynchings, church burnings, drive-by shootings and bombings [would] put these subhuman animals back in their place."

    Turner materialized at various white power gatherings in several states. He also traveled to Brazil on the FBI's dime to spy on suspected white supremacists in that country, as well as to investigate an alleged plot by white supremacists and Brazilian Arabs to send "consumer goods" to resistance fighters in Iraq. It's difficult to believe that the CIA remained entirely aloof from that aspect of Turner's career.

    While the FBI was willing to abet Turner's efforts to incite violence against innocent people, the Feds moved against him shortly after he published comments on his blog interpreted as death threats against three judges in Chicago. He was arrested shortly before the 2008 election and is scheduled to stand trial this week.

  26. part 5:

    As the song says, "some men like the fishin', some men like the fowlin', and some men like to hear the cannonball a-roarin." Turner likes nothing more than hearing the sound of his own voice. Yet "here I am in prison, betrayed," he laments, arrested by the same FBI Special Agent who recruited him and – he plaintively maintains – fed him his lines.

    "I was given specific instructions," Turner declares, and he played the role of racist agitator out of his duty as "a loyal, patriotic decent American citizen."

    Turner may be telling the truth. His experiences are eerily similar to those recounted by former FBI "deep cover" operative (and one-time Roller Derby star – no, I'm not kidding) David Gletty in his ineptly written but highly useful memoir Undercover Nazi: The FBI Infiltration of Extremist Groups in America.

    In what strikes me as a transparent effort to cultivate a marketable mystique, Gletty says that many details of his work as a paid FBI snitch remain "classified." He claims to have been recruited in 2000 when, as the leader of a constitutional militia, he came across a plot by an Appalachian white supremacist to set off a string of radiological bombs in collaboration with al-Qaeda.

    Recruited as a "deep cover" operative, Gletty spent several years cultivating ties with "extremist" groups, including elements of the KKK, the Hammerskins, and eventually the National Socialist Movement. He was careful to get his "ticket punched" by working with legitimate dissident groups such as the League of the South, and various immigration reform groups, such as at least one element of the Minuteman volunteer border watch movement.

    Gletty's most notable achievement was to infiltrate and become leader of a National Socialist Movement chapter in Florida and organize a 2006 NSM march in Orlando that was intended to sow fear and anger in a predominantly black neighborhood.

    To prepare for that role, Gletty behaved much as Hal Turner had, fulminating in public about the supposed inferiority of non-white people and befouling the air with exhortations to collectivist violence. This not only legitimized Gletty in the eyes of his comrades in the NSM, it also helped to rile up the group's enemies, thereby ensuring a large turnout of counter-protesters for the February 2006 march in Orlando – which was exactly what the Bureau desired.

    During his years as an informant/provocateur, Gletty was usually accompanied by a fellow asset he identifies only as "Joe." During the Orlando protest, Gletty recalls, Joe carried a concealed digital camera "for taking all the photos he could of protesters and counter-protesters. Then the images would be fed into the FBI face recognition computer. At least 1000 faces for the computer to digest."

    In addition to producing a bounty of biometric intelligence for the FBI, the Orlando rally offered a good dry run for a future Homeland Security crack-down. Gletty points out that his FBI handler was "actually pumped up" about the Orlando march, "because the protest would be a great training exercise for the Orlando Police Department, Orange County Sheriff's Department, the FBI, and MBI [the Central Florida Metropolitan Bureau of Investigation] as they would all be in attendance."

  27. part 6:

    As a leader in the white supremacist underground, Gletty held many "surveillance parties" – not only public events, but private functions used to gather intelligence and, where possible, set up various low-level thugs to become informant/provocateurs themselves.

    For three years, "Joe and I ... traveled from state to state, rally to rally, and party to party, infiltrating the White Power Movement in America," Gletty recalls. "Thousands of miles, hundreds of photographed faces, and a myriad of tape recordings were contributing to the eradication of racial and religious prejudice in America."

    Really? To judge from recent attention earned by the NSM, Gletty's mission was not to help "eradicate" prejudice (as if this could be accomplished through government intervention), but rather to bring the group more completely under the FBI's control.

    The NSM is a remnant of George Lincoln Rockwell's American Nazi Party (ANP). According to Hate: George Lincoln Rockwell and the American Nazi Party, the ANP was thoroughly compromised through the FBI's notorious COINTELPRO operation; by the time of his murder in 1967, Rockwell was widely believed to be a "patsy" for the FBI or some other intelligence agency.

    One objective of the anti-ANP COINTELPRO operation was to create a rift between Rockwell's Nazi outfit and the United Klans of America. By the late 1970s, the Klan was thoroughly honeycombed with FBI assets. In fact the Bureau boasted that it had enough Klansmen on its payroll in North Carolina to elect that state's Grand Dragon: At one point, 7 of the 8 members of a Charlotte Klan chapter reportedly were FBI assets informing on the klavern's sole non-federal employee.

  28. part 7:

    Edward Dawson, an informant/provocateur on the payroll of the Greensboro police department and under the supervision of the FBI, helped orchestrate a November 3, 1979 street clash between white supremacists and Communists that left five people dead. The "White Power" contingent included elements of both the Klan and the American Nazi Party, whose FBI-engineered rift had apparently healed sufficiently to permit joint action.

    The National Socialist Movement's current strategy is to provoke tumult and violence, rather than participating in it directly. In recent weeks the group has achieved a relatively high profile by staging anti-immigration rallies in Riverside, California and Phoenix, Arizona.

    In California, a small knot of NSM denizens faced off with members of "Los Brown Berets de Aztlan," a foundation-funded militant Chicano group, with riot police clad in body armor on hand to maintain "order." A few weeks later the group inflicted itself on an immigration- reform protest in Arizona during which the group's most visible spokesperson, J.T. Ready, unfurled a portrait of Adolf Hitler.

    Ready – a dishonorably discharged ex-Marine – is a pretty good candidate to be the next NSM figure outed as an asset of the Feds. An ambulatory wad of cholesterol and bile, Ready looks like the unfortunate result of a genetic experiment combining the most unpleasant traits of Ernst Roehm and Chris Farley.

    While certainly not telegenic, Ready has achieved a certain media prominence as a result of his candor in reciting the Nazi party line.

    The sudden prominence of the NSM has been noted – with a detectable hint of gratitude – by left-collectivists eager to shoehorn resistance to the Obama Regime into a pre-determined narrative: Critics of the Blessed One and his administration are animated by concealed bigotry, according to this reading, whether they know it or not, and their rhetoric is creating an "atmosphere" of incipient violence that will engender domestic terrorism.

    It should be remembered that the same tropes were put into play early in the last Democratic administration, just before the 1995 Oklahoma City Bombing – a terrorist act for which disenchanted former federal employee Timothy McVeigh was executed, but was actually carried out with the help of "others unknown," including several federal assets connected to a bizarre little white supremacist commune known as Elohim City.

    The Regime has gone to a great deal of trouble to keep the otherwise moribund White Power movement on life support. It's simply too useful as a political foil – and, occasionally, as an instrument of politically useful violence – for the Regime to let it die.

  29. Regardless of the source, the article is excellent. I think he pretty well nailed the whole thing.

  30. Comparing the NSM to The Spiders from Eastwood's "Every Which Way but Loose" was a pretty funny line.

  31. I am getting the feeling there would be MUCH LESS violence(from both sides) if the FBI didn't stick their noses in and orchestrate these things.

    This is what happens when the gubmint has controlled opposition.

    Of course the Feds should OBSERVE what's going on, but to organize and steer these things?

  32. Yea, Nikki, I would love for you to post this on the main site and of course give your own observations of what was written.

  33. Question to the experts out there:

    If Hal did indeed go abroad to Venezuela, doesn't that mean there may have been some CIA involvement as well?

    Just curious.

  34. Question to the experts out there:

    If Hal did indeed go abroad to Venezuela, doesn't that mean there may have been some CIA involvement as well?

    Just curious.

  35. "The Regime has gone to a great deal of trouble to keep the otherwise moribund White Power movement on life support."

    It would appear that way.

  36. Chief Sick of IT!December 05, 2009 1:35 PM

    I don't think you have the fucking brains to figure out what the government is doing. Why don't you take your conspiracy bullshit where it belongs?

  37. """DUMB4Life said...ACORN...I have no problem.... """

    That figures that YOU would say that dumbass.

    """If the GOP cared more about the inner cities and urban areas.....Bush made the abundantly clear in his response to Katrina."""

    Fuck THEM. Their problem is that they built their property on a swamp and sucked the water out of it for years to dry it out. Leaving them below sea level. And they want to rebuild in the EXACT same place? Fuck them. This is a burden on the dipshits in Louisiana, not the American people.

    And now we have parasites STILL living in FEMA trailers for FREE!!!

    AND to top it off FEMA offering them the trailers for $1.00.

    Worthless parasites on the American tax payer. And they just so happen to all be niggers. Isn't that interesting and such a commonality.

  38. """Rev. LittleBoa@ said...What a load of bullshit (above) grow a fucking brain."""

    That was a good article which just shows that you are THE most ignorant person on this blog.

  39. Boa isn't too bright...oh, but I forgot that he too works for the it isn't surprising he would tow the gub line.

  40. I get the impression that guys like boa and others here calling for the incarceration of various white nationalist were living in the 1770's, they'd be calling for hanging those "traitors" who signed the Declaration of Independence.

  41. Hooch is really fucking stupid. Got to be Von, makes the same stupid fucking bullshit statements.


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